We would still like to add Veigo and Sylas
Im not a developer but I think sylas is a lot easier than viego? If this is true does that mean there is a chance that we can get sylas? Or sylas will be in a box too with viego?
Sylas is a bit easier for sure, but they have the same core problem, due to them copying abilities. We want to add them both but need to solve those problems first.
Don’t you think this change removes the skill threshold for smite and changes it to rng? The better player should be rewarded, not whatever player happens to happens to drop the monsters health below the execution threshold.
I think both junglers try to hit Smite at the same time has plenty of rng in it already. And the same mitigating factors like zoning the enemy apply to both models. Plus the need to land a basic attack, or ability (if we go that route), plus the fact that CC now locks an opponent out of last hitting the objective, introduces more counterplay.
What do you think is more skillful? The Lee Sin who tries to hit Baron with Q, but you body-block the projectile and he dashes to you anyway then Smites Baron, or the one who dashes to you then needs to hit Baron?
Unless you are talking about the skill check of tracking if your jungler has Smite off CD or not. In that case then I'd say yes this does remove some skill, but I don't think it is one we think is a desirable skill check in Wild Rift. By removing the CD we make it so that players are not trapped by starting Baron/Dragon when their team's Smite is on CD.
Thank you for your participation in this Reddit
Thanks! You're gonna make me all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm glad I can shed some light on a bit of behind the scenes game dev. I'm glad you are enjoying the game.
I main Veigo have you guys made any progress with the constraints? Like can you still be added eventually or is there something fudgey with him that would take too much work?
I been spamming zoe and I'm liking her a lot. The E didn't feel bad to me personally and I'm having more success on her in wildrift than pc league.
We would still like to add Veigo and Sylas at some point but for the moment he is still a problem child.
I'm glad you are enjoying Zoe, I have had a similar experience with her in Wild Rift, I played her a lot when she came out on PC but I wouldn't say I was particularly good with her. In our internal tests I have felt she is much easier to pick up... Then I lane against Endstep who destroys me and shows that even with her being easier to pick up I still have a ways to go before I can call myself a good Zoe player.
Read moreI would expect maybe both teams would get baron. Again, I'm not too sure what COULD happen, I don't even know if its physically possible in an ideal scenario where without ping and all variables aside, for both teams to execute a monster/neutral objective together at the same time. Of course, none of those scenarios would come up, it's just every now and then, the front page of Reddit has this post of like one in a million chances of something so coincidental, that we never thought it would be possible without staging, and I was just curious if smite executes like that would be possible.
The reason it intrigued me was because this is all automatic, I would think ping wouldn't be a variable (to a non game engineer like me).Now, it's not about who presses the button first, with time delay, reaction speed, ping, it would be impossible to double smite at the same time. Now that it's automatic, if both junglers somehow got the threshold below at the same time, I would think som...
To be clear it's not about damage in the last few seconds to "mark" the objective for Execution. Smite tiggers in the same instant that you deal damage, so timing is still important. Those timing delays and reaction speeds are still a thing. Timing an attack so that it is the one that reduces Baron to Smite's threshold is the same kind of timing as pressing Smite. Ping is still a factor too, but it's impact is minimized because it doesn't come down to a single press, and instead repeated basic attacks and abilities can all secure it.
Right, I understand that, but theoretically speaking, if both junglers are just auto-ing baron, if they have the same AD and AS, and say they had a full team of healing supports and they have life steal to stay alive, in this hypothetical scenario where both junglers got the threshold down at the same time, who would take it?
Even in a more realistic scenario, say baron is at 1000 and the threshold is 900. It's not uncommon for both junglers to do a 100hp ability or auto, at the same time, dropping it to like 800.
I know it'll go to the player whos attack or ability hit first down to the milliseconds but just for fun, what if the timing was IDENTICAL, what would happen?
I don't have a great answer for you in the scenarios you put forward, I'm not sure how it has been set up. I believe it follows the same rules Smite does right now if Baron is at 50 HP and both junglers hit Smite on the same frame (disgregarding ping). Even in the more realistic scenario you brought up, its still the same situation in the end (Both players Smite at the exact same time, who wins?).
What really ends up happening is that you end up trying to rush down the objective by using all your abilities on CD, or you save your big burst to secure it, not too different from live. And the frame-perfect scenario we are talking about isn't going to come up.
But what would you expect/want to happen in this case? Does it go to the team that started the buff? The team with the most gold? The team who has more players with the letter A in their name? Does each team get half the buff? Should it be 50/50 random?
So here is my question…. Why not just delay the champion release until you could perfect it….
Because we would never ship champions anything if we waited for things to be perfect. That's a larger take on the question, but and we do explore if we can do a champion before we start working on them. Famously Veigo was a champion we started on but ran into unforeseen constraints that forced us to put him in the ice box.
More seriously to your point though, we don't always know what is needed for a champion when we start working on them. Particularly the kinds of things that come from working on a champion and after having played them a bit. Things like Lillia and Zoe's third abilities (E) drawing a line on the mini-map were not things we thought of when we started on the champions, but that we discovered would be good to have through playtesting. Lillia's R showing the number of enemy champions that it would affect didn't show up until very late in her development.
Other times something ends up being easier than we thought, or even more difficult, may...
Read moreJust curious, what would happen if both junglers are just doing baron at the same time and no one killed each other? Who would smite first?
It sounds like there is some confusion on how it works. This does not remove the timing requirement of Smite, you still need to deal non-DoT damage to the objective (we are experimenting with if this should include ability damage or just basic attacks). If your damage reduces the Large/Epic monster's HP below Smite's threshold it will execute it.
So if you have 2 champions fighting at Baron, and not damaging it, then neither will take the objective. However, if both are fighting Baron, the jungler who secures the objective is the one who brought Baron to the execute threshold. Just like on live the jungler who secures the objective is the one who last hit it.
Another part of this is that Smite doesn't have a cooldown, so this applies to every large/epic monster, and you no longer need to worry about using your Smite during the pre-Baron fight, on RedBuff before the fight, or to secure Baron. Or if you are not the jungler, you don't need to worry about if your jung...
Read moreI’m glad to hear there’s at least a chance of it being changed to make it like OP suggests (in the post, not really a fan of the idea they had in their comment lol).
Would a simple “camera pans out a bit when you aim E at a wall” not be feasible? Rather than the camera following the end of the bubble trajectory, I mean.
Also, and this is something I wondered a few days ago because of Zoe coming to WR, has the team ever considered a fully unlocked camera option? Maybe a toggle similar to the pan camera, only to unlock and lock the camera back on your champ, or even a settings option that lets you change the functionality of the current existing pan camera button?
I feel like it’s probably technical limitations and/or not wanting to put too many “moving parts” in a game that’s means to be more approachable for average players, but I thought I’d ask
We did try versions where the camera shifted a little bit while you were aiming E (even if not through walls) but it makes comboing a bit funky as the camera then needs to move out and then back Zoe, so it slows everything down in an unintuitive way. This makes using multiple abilities feel odd and is the kind of thing that is very difficult to explain without getting your hands on it.
As for a fully unlocked camera, that is not something the team is planning and we are very unlikely to change. A game's camera is directly tied to how the game plays and feels, and this would be a lot of work for something that I suspect most people would not use.
Sadge, we'll have to wait a few weeks then right?
I don't have the exact date off hand, but I believe it turns on in 4.1 (the next balance patch) or 4.2. Regardless I'm sure you'll see it in the balance patch notes.
Well, I thank you for not making the game zoom out the moment I cast E on the wall it sounds like an FPS drop nightmare.
We had you in mind when we made this change.
Please just let us zoom out in general. It’s already in the replay system and the only reason it can’t zoom out more is tradition from Warcraft 3.
There is no reason we shouldn’t be able to zoom Out.
It's not so much a tradition of WC3, though I imagine there is a lot of overlap as to why it should be limited. We have tried different zoom levels, especially early on in the game's development but changing it has a fundamental impact on the feeling and balance of the game.
The biggest reason is that zooming out grants you more vision of the area around you (ofc) this makes ganks more difficult, while reducing the importance of vision. Wild Rift is also a very tactical game and being zoomed out makes pvp combat and tactical play much more difficult and unclear.
This camera zoom was specifically chosen and does impact the range of abilities, if we pulled the camera further out we would want to increase VFX (especially for short-ranged abilities) so that players could still have a clear understanding of what is going on, while long-range abilities are adjusted/balanced with the camera size in mind (Notice how Blitzcrank's Grab doesn't go past the screen).
Sp...
Read moreKind of wild that they don’t have to select smite.
How would role swapping work? Won’t this be a little strong?
Unfortunately, I don't know the details of role-swapping myself, but it is on our minds. This does add some power to junglers, particularly when ganking or in PvP, but in a way that should be more familiar to players trying out the position.
Oh I see, thx for the explaining
I do have an idea about this could you tell me if it works?
Basicly if I want to hit my E behind the wall, it shows me on the small camera ( the small camera that shows up when I move my camera ) where exactly my E will hit
I understand if you didnt like this idea because maybe it is a big advantage? Not sure but I think this will be a lot better
We do use the mini cam when you hit something off screen, but we also don't want to put too much on the mini cam. Not all phones can handle both cameras at once so it can lead to situations where the game ends up being unfair if your phone's hardware isn't top of the line.
Or confusing situations where you are panning the camera (thus it shows yourself in the mini cam) as you aim or fire E, what should the camera show?
Or worse you (and we saw this a bit when testing abilities that could use the mini cam) are aiming your ability and the mini cam pops us blocking your view.
We can ways make adjustments in the future if there are significant problems, but this is a high-level optimization on a very high-skill champion. Zoe is also brand new so I expect there is a bit of a learning curve that everyone is working through atm before we decide if changes to this are needed.
That makes sense, would you care to elaborate on the reasons as to why this is being tested? Like what was the team’s goals or problem statement being addressed with challenging smite?
Or is this just something meant to be new/fun for ARURF? I do like having access to flash and a secondary spell (rather than the obligatory smite) as a jungler, it’s a fun change.
Also, another thing I’ve wondered is whether these changes will mean objective securing is easier with specific champions or builds. For example, a higher dps jungle champion like Master Yi having an easier time securing than Rammus? If so, would that be intentional in that a Rammus player would have to learn/master their champion and how to time an ability rather than just using the old smite? Or that it’s intentional for Master Yi to have an easier time with this because it’s intrinsic to his kit? Or would this be an area/problem of concern if true?
Thanks!
We have a few important goals, but to be clear we do not see this as a one-stop fix for junglers.
One major one is to make the Smite controls more intuitive.
Summoner Spells all just have a single value unit type (Yourself: Ghost, Heal, Barrier, Flash, Clarity, Dash/Snowball2; Enemy Champion: Ignite, Exhaust, Mark/Snowball). Smite has 2 (champions and large monsters).
Abilities will prioritize champions, this makes sense and you generally want that to be your target.
However, Smite breaks this rule in a somewhat funky way.
Tapcasting:
This is something we wanted to do but we had some tech limits with it having a variable range that we couldn't solve in time.
We did try a few different variations with having the camera pan but it made things really funky when you were trying to quickly combo your abilities without sending E through a wall. Using the mini-map to pan the camera isn't a great experience, but we try to help compensate for that with the line drawn on the minimap.
Bruh Camille’s getting QoL buff, knocking her ceiling by quite a lot. Still gonna be scary to play against.
Glad you are excited, I'm excited to see how she holds up once things settle down a bit.
Just had my first game as zoe. Im still learning her controls but I pretty much just hope I hit something with q>r>q because cam panning is hard
She takes some getting used to for sure, but don't focus too much on super long range hits, she can do her job with a well placed bubble from just around the wall if you are clever.
Did inhibs get added? It doesn't say so in the patch notes :/
They will be coming in one of the upcoming balance patches, so it won't be live today, but very soon.
Read moreJust a couple initial thoughts…
- The execute smite changes will mean that your jungler will be expected to stay on the objective while your teammates protect and/or help them. It will be interesting to see whether this makes it to ranked. Obviously, it may mean less skill expression for junglers and those who were good at securing objectives with a well timed smite will be rewarded less. It will also make it more difficult to steal objectives. However, as a positive it means that low elo players and those less skilled will be encouraged/taught that your jungler needs to stay on the objective and it will be the responsibility of the team to help them out or protect them. This is mostly common knowledge amongst high elo players, however is a major pain point in lower elos and keeps players from maining jungle because they don’t want to be blamed for not securing objectives. The responsibility/burden of securing objectives may be more easily seen/acknowledged to b...
That's a good breakdown, though I don't think I'd call it less skill expression, more so that it is shifted into other areas.
Smite timing still matters when it comes to using your ability (non-DoT)/basic attacks on the objective (we are still testing to see how we feel about abilities working or not).
But the skill test is, like you said, still about hitting the objective and the timing for the still exists. This is intentional to allow for exciting moments like stealing Dragon/Baron and make them less of a coin toss and more about champion mastery.
Where I actually think this does is shift the skill test out of PvE and more into PvP. By giving junglers access to ghost, ignite, or exhaust, (maybe a heal gank) the skill check is shifted to ganking and choosing the right tool for your champion/game.
As for loadouts I don't know the details here, but I believe it is primarily focused on updating default loadouts with new items and better rec builds,...
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