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Resign and I will
You got it boss
Resign and I will
You got it boss
Does it matter tho? Don't the pros outweight the cons of not increasing engagement? Cleaned up code to work with, easier to make skins for, better looking skins in the future to sell, etc.
Obviously it doesn’t, that’s why we still do them
Is it theoretically possible for an unpopular champion to get an ASU?
Not that you have any of them planned right now or anything, just curious to know if the idea is on the table or if ASUs are strictly directed at popular champions.
Obviously a lot of older champions tend to have clunky kits that could use a full VGU, so I imagine that also plays a factor.
Totally. We are currently rethinking our strategy around ASU/VUs, and popularity might take a less prominent role in selection going forward (But will still be a factor, but maybe a less important factor)
Thanks for answering! But reave that was 8 years ago and it will be 9 next year. She has the same voicelines, same animations 😭 she still feels outdated.
I didnt say she didnt need one. I said thier are champions that need one more.
If I may, a good candidate for a CGU is Morgana.
Her kit dates to 2009, but she's a pretty modern champion. C'mon, small healing as a passive, her W being so easy to simply walk-away, her shield being strong but not so "useful" and her ultimate making people just walk away from her and stopping completely... Girl has room for improvement.
Morgana is one of the most popular supports in the game. She's simple but that necessarily bad. I don't see us doing a CGU on her anytime soon
Its really tricky, because whatever move Riot does, they would be gigantic criticized, even if it's a champ like Illaoi. Even old Asol that wasn't really played had a lot of criticize. I would love to see Illaoi reworked, she has potential, but her kit is really problematic, it's one of the worst champions to play against in the whole game.
Totally, but its a pretty big difference in how many players it disrupts if the Champion has a much smaller player base. Illoai still has a MUCH larger playerbase then pre-CGU Asol, who was the least popular champ in the game in some patches (Him and Skarner swapped depending on the patch)
So then reav3, can we at least agree that Miss Fortune will get an ASU for next year?
I mean we did a minor VU to MF during the bilgewater event. She could use more but I think she's far from the worst champion in the game right now.
Thanks Reav3! Also, a bit off topic but I wanted to ask if CatchesAxes's project still related to the Gameplay Initiative for League or is it off something else for League Studio since got moved to League RnD
He's still on the gameplay initiative.
Why do rioters just blatantly lie like this when the financials of your company are public information?
"oh boohoo it costs slightly more to update the game than it is to half ass a new champ (which already costs next to nothing) on our ancient ass game that's been going for over a decade" are you trying to fool us or yourself? Also, no the entire yearly salary of your employees is not "a cost" to your product, because we all know that's the only way you can even pretend it costs you money to do this. It's disingenuous and deep down we and you both know the effective cost of releasing and updating champions is zero.
League is made on the cheap and you make money hand over fist. You have no excuse, no justification and no right to complain.
Damn dude, you seem to have all the answers. You should apply to our Finances Team
Thank you for clarifying. I do hope Malphite gets a ASU one day. Rock boi deserves some love.
Same, and we are looking into ways to make VUs/ASUs faster. It's already faster then the past since we have a more robust outsourcing system these days. I know it doesnt feel that way, since as we have increased outsourcing, skin catalogs have got larger. We want to do more of them.
Hey reav3 are you able to share what the process of a CGU looks like as well. I know you guys have only done ASol so far, but is it something you guys want to do more of now and if there are any candidates you have in mind
CGUs are cool and we would like to do more. The problem is that they are tricky and thier aren't a lot of Champions that would be a good fit for a CGU. A CGU basically just takes the Art and Theme of a Champion and then completely deletes the current kit. The design team then rebuilds a entirely new kit, from the ground up, based on the current art and theme. So for Asol we felt that the Space Dragon theme was cool and resonant but the kit wasn't doing it justice.
Completing deleting a kit and building a new one isn't something we want to take lightly so it would have to be a case where we think the upside is high enough to take a kit (however unpopular) that some players have played 100s of games on and delete it.
I think thier are still a couple champions that could fall into this category right now, but we would have to find something new that was a clear upgrade over what's on live. If it feels lateral to players it would be pretty bad, sentiment wise
Read moreI feel like Caitlyn's ASU got a lot of hype and engagement, and (perhaps to a lesser extent) so did Ahri's. I think ASUs can be popular if they're marketed right. Caitlyn got a bunch of teasers, the new splash arts revealed through social media, a video showing her new base in-game, then her theme video had the final concept art for all the new skin designs and proccess for the new splash arts.
Ahri got her new splashes revealed and a model preview posted on social media before PBE + her update teased in the client. On the other hand her new splashes were partly datamined before the official reveal and so was part of her theme song, and the theme video was also posted only around release and didn't have her final ASU concept art (just old ones and for cinematics). And you can see that her video got much less views that Cait's.
Now Jax on the other hand didn't even have a model preview video of his skins or the new splashes posted on social media (or anywhere) before...
Its not a random take away based on reading social media/reddit/etc. We just look at the data to see how many people start playing them after the VU/ASU. Historically it hasn't changed engagement in the slightest. We might see a small bump during the first patch but then they go back to the same engagement as prior. VGUs tend to have sustained engagement, meaning that we see a permanent increase in engagement with that champion post VGU. Caitlyn is tough to parse, because ALL the Arcane champs saw a bump in popularity for a little while once the show came out. Viktor is really the only champ that sustained that popularity post arcane. Looking at Caitlyn/Ahris playrates right now and she is sitting at the same spot they were pre-ASU. Meanwhile Udyr is sitting at a higher playrate then he ever was pre-VGU.
In fact Midscopes have had a better overall effect on champion engagement then VUs/ASUs and they cost like fraction of the resources.
Now engagement isn't the only ...
Read moreIn ASUs they have kept legendaries the same. Star Guardian Ahri got a new face and tweaked VFX to match the ASU but no new animations or VO. I believe Jax's legendary only got minor tweaks too.
I think that's a good way of handling legendaries and ultimates to not increase the workload. Like, completely remaking Elementalist Lux would be insane, but updating her faces (and adding face animation?) and VFX would already be enough.
Depends on the Champion, and how well the Legendary holds up. Some champs were so bad that they made new rigs for them for the legendaries. In those cases we don't need to remake them, but that isn't always the case
Good response! This about sums it up =)
They're very resource and time intensive, for something that could easily ( with a bit more of those things ) just be a new champion. And new champions bring riot far more player retention and excitement to the game generally speaking.
I haven't played a single game of Caitlyn since her ASU because I do not enjoy Caitlyn, but I have a few games on both Briar and Naafiri because I wanted to try a brand new experience. I'm sure the same is true for a huge part of the player base.
To be clear they cost WAAAAY more then a new champion to make, probably like 2-3 times the amount of time resources as a new champion. I can break what it takes down very clearly having worked on many Champs/VGUS/VUs over the years
- New concept art and in some cases a re-imagining of the champ to better fit the IP (in the case of a Champion who doesn't fit as well with current lore) Jax is a good example of this. Who he was, and why he was a purple thing with 3 fingers wasn't really defined in his previous version, so we had to do a good amount of narrative/concept work to get him better aligned with the modern IP before we could even start.
- All new Model, Rig, VFX and Animations
- New VO across every language, and every Legendary+ skin
- New concept art for all updated skins
- New or edited splash art for all skins
- New Models, VFX and Animations for ALL skins. For Animations, at the very least we have to make a new recall, but in t...
If i have to guess after briar release so somewhere between sept and october tho this is just a spectatulation
Within the next month or 2
Not if you wanna start a hype train ;)
You know I do love a good hype train. I’m like the Baron of hype trains.
Would you also have any updates on Quick Play? Would it be out at the end of the year or would it be next
It’s currently still planned for this year
Hey reav3 can you share what kind of scope we could expect from the smaller split 3 patch, if it isn't midseason sized. Would it be like a larger than average balance patch.
It will be more focused on competitive play for worlds, similar to the larger sized patches we do before worlds patches
hey reav, since jax and skarner got mentioned but not inkmage, does that mean he is delayed or is he still on track for this year?
He's still on track for this year, we will talk about him more in the next Champion Roadmap
Ranked: I know all other games adopt a 3 month or so Ranked "reset" cadence, but League was special because it felt like a sporting season. Its familiar, flexible, and intuitive.
Having 3 different splits waters down the merit, value, and prestige of the Ranked ecosystem because it resets and happens so often. It's like if the World Cup changes from every 4 years, to every year. Frequency isn't always positive, I mean look at the LEC, I don't even know wtf is going on there. They're dishing out trophies like Oprah and it just waters down the experience and achievement.
Summoners Rift: BYE MYTHICS, you wont be missed. Wish these Dev Updates have more information about SR. Better than the previous one though. /u/Reav3 said preseason was going to be big, I hope it delivers.
Gotta keep some things a secret ;)