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We're on the same page!
Right now they're desynced because we're tweaking things to optimize around the 5-day previews. Once we're in closed beta they should all line up.
We're on the same page!
Right now they're desynced because we're tweaking things to optimize around the 5-day previews. Once we're in closed beta they should all line up.
Hello RyscG. Would you please share something more about matchmaking in Exp. Mode?
I know that 2 champions deck are always against 2 champions decks. How about number of Trade Picks, Wins, current Lose or others? 6 Wins against 6 Wins?
What's the number of Trade Picks after 6 Wins? I run several trials with 6 Picks but 1 trial with 4 Picks. I'm confused.
Thanks!
Matchmaking is based on number of Champions in your deck, and then sudden death. Losses/trade picks etc are not considered.
The trade picks at 6 wins are getting you caught up to the max number of trade picks you could have had in the run before that, so everyone is the same for that final battle.
Is MMR shared between Constructed and Expeditions or is it separate?
Separate.
We had MMR based matchmaking in the last preview, but it was tuned VERY loosely, because we wanted to make sure players got into game.
For this preview, we tightened up the MMR matchmaking, especially early on in queue, and added some criteria that prevent players with very few games played from being matched into more experienced players. This latter effect falls off pretty fast after a player's first 5-10 games.
Glad to hear it feels like a more fair experience!
While this seems like a good idea in theory, what makes the execution fail is that the players are simply too exited to see their run rewards to notice the xp boost
Yeah, we are investigating ways of making it more obvious that you are going to get a big burst of XP!
Rematches are blocked for a short period of time, currently 10sec in Normal PvP and 50sec in Expeditions.
Depending on when you're playing, your MMR and how many games you've played in that queue, it's possible that no better matches are being found before these expire. FWIW, we should probably increase the time in Normal PvP...I've noted it.
Thanks :)
Read moreI value gold chests as 535 shards cause I value the shards given by duplicates. My argument about why I do this is that there are 150 (3 = 450)different commons and 108 (3 = 324) different rares.
With this high number, the personal value should be the worst case scenario which I would denominate the duplicates value, cause this still assumes you are going to get some that you want but others that you dont want at all which could give you 3 rolls without duplicate shards.
This is how I value capsules and chests: (WRONG DIDNT COUNT UPGRADING, below is updated with upgrades)
Blue capsule 175 shards
Epic capsule 500 shards
Legendary capsule 1525 shards
Wild capsule 1000 shards
Chests (exp value from weekly, not enough information for region specific)
Bronce (value 0 exp) 50 + 80* = 130* shards
Silver (1k exp) 125 + 200* = 325* shards
Gold (1.5k) 175 + 360* = 535* shards
Plat (2k) 3...
Shard value for duplicates is one way to look at rewards, but it implies that a player only values Shards and not cards. That is a good model for the Limited-only player, but the numbers change quite a bit if you are a hybrid player and place value on at least some cards themselves.
It is always great to see players figuring out all the math so quickly! From my spot checks, what I see looks right to me regarding your math (though I could have missed something!).
The tricky thing to account for in rewards is the upgrades, though since we have published the upgrade chances then it should be possible to build the table.
Another thing you might want to consider for your analysis is accounting for agency: if you add in a multiplier to random rewards, but not to wildcard rewards, then you can see how the tables change for players that value random content at different levels compared to an equivalent wildcard.
Great stuff!
Thank you for the answer! Do we get double the burst exp when doing the second try of the expedition? I won my first one and gave up without doing the second run.
It is all based on the win record of the Trial itself, so yup you get it separately for each Trial in an Expedition
Hey there! We wanted to make completing a Trial be a milestone, so what we did is decrease the end of game XP on wins and losses for Expeditions while adding on a big burst of XP at the end of a Trial depending on how many wins you got. This will happen both in Expeditions as well as Open Play, so get those wins!
Alright, I'll just shuffle them around.
Also, there is the question of extra bonus shards ? This can upgrade has well, right ? :p
I don't believe so. I looked at the loot tables and unless it's hooked up in a way I don't understand (which is possible), there's no upgrades on shards.
Wow. To be honest, I didn't expect to get an answer. Thank you so much !
These numbers do look fairly generous indeed, and I understand they are going to be your main adjustment variable when it comes to "metagame-evolution-pacing".
Well, op has got to deliver now ;)
Actually, there is still one information missing: the order of the region reward. I believe they are not in expected value order ?
The region reward order is not exactly the same for all regions, because some rewards are swapped around by a position or two. It's never a huge difference and the total content lines up every 4 levels.
Fair enough :).
We debated a bunch whether we should just include the upgrade rates in that article, but we were hesitant to. The upgrade chances are among the least confident tuning values we have, and, to be honest, is probably one of the most likely places we'd take value out of the system if we need to buff something elsewhere (or if, hopefully not, we've just overtuned things). While we can, and will, communicate that kind of change, it usually causes a bunch of confusion despite our intent to be clear. We wanted to see how much interest there was in the upgrade chances before signing us and players up for that.
Clearly there is an interest to see them, so I'll share them here. That said, THESE COULD DECREASE IN THE FUTURE! These may be overtuned or it may be that the reward value will better serve players elsewhere in the system.
| Reward | Upgrade Chance |
|---|---|
| ... |
I don't know if Riot is reading this or not but one of the things I didn't like was that some of the quests required you to own certain cards, such as "Win a game with Lucian and Senna in your deck". Even though they can be rerolled requiring people to own certain card(s) in order to complete quests feels really bad if you get one and don't own that particular card. You should be rerolling because you don't want to do the quest, not because you can't do them with the cards you have.
Each of our quests has prerequisite criteria that check against your collection before you can be granted that quest.
For examples liked the one you've pointed out, if you get that quest and don't own one or both of the cards it's a bug and we'll fix them as we find them. For more nuanced cases like a quest to do Overwhelm damage, it may just be a tuning problem since it's debatable where the bar should be there.
WHY OH WHY is the level 4 vault Bronze Silver Gold and not Silver Silver Silver. The pattern is PERFECT except for level 4. Rito pls.
You have no idea how much this bugs me...but in terms of actual value break down this is the better way. Sigh.
I understand that; is 3 extra rares and a little extra dust each week enough of a difference to make up 25% of a collection?
Fair question...I could have been clearer.
Hitting a Level 13 Vault gets you the increased rewards you're pointing out, but it's also a useful benchmark for how much XP got poured into region rewards each week. A lot of the delta is coming from so much more progress on region rewards each week, rather than the Vault directly.
I wonder how we are supposed to get epic cards ? If I'm reading that correctly finishing one region gives 7 epic cards/wildcards which seems to be a low source. And you cannot have epics with a chest (only if the reward "upgrades") ? I dont know how many epics cards are in the game but it seems impossible to unlock all of them without paying / luck. They didn't announce the rewards for the "expeditions", that might be the best way to complete the collection.
At least you can have a guaranteed champion card each week.
I wonder if they will be adding Twitch drops for chests/capsules. Or will they only do that for cosmetics ?
A lot of Epics do come from upgrades, and they can also be crafted with Shards.
We'll be carefully watching the breakdown of rarities players are getting, from what sources, and lining that up with rarity usage in decks. It'll never be perfect because there's variance in how many of each rarity a deck needs, how players choose to spend Shards etc, but we'll do our best to make sure that rarity feels liked you'd expect. Commons shouldn't really be a problem, Rares should come pretty easy, Epics you probably have to chase a bit, and Champions should be pretty special.
While I'm a huge fan of the idea that you can obtain the whole set without paying anything, I hope they've given a lot of thought to catch up mechanics to players that don't start day 1. One of the biggest issues cards games have after a few sets is barrier to entry. Normally this can at a minimum be overcome by throwing money in to the game. If you can't do that to make up for the time you missed, it's going to be really hard for newer players that come in after two or three sets are released.
We're definitely thinking about catch up mechanics.
We're still deciding exactly what we want to do, and I'm sure it will evolve over time as well, but we want players to be able to join at any point and feel like they can fully enjoy the game.
Shame we don’t have any numbers for that vault yet.
We've seen a lot of players estimating rewards for the vault and more, so we're going to release an article with hard numbers. It'll cover region rewards, the vault, our estimates of how much players will need to play to unlock the full set and more.
We're committed to providing equal attention to players around the globe wherever possible, which means I unfortunately gotta keep you waiting for a little bit until we can get the thing translated into all our global languages. Expect to see it next week.
Read moreSorry if I am late. I just wanted to ask a small question on point 3.
When I played Hearthstone. I enjoyed it a lot. I quit the game due to it’s monetization practices. I liked the game A LOT. I didn’t however like being forced to buy essentially the solution to the the problem they created. The problem being I need x cards to be competitive. The solution being locked behind like a 40$ paywall and considering for what I got, is high way robbery.
To be clear. Will all cards be able to be obtainable for free? So like if say Vi comes out, under no circumstances would Vi only be obtainable through $$$? (Or insert any other champ, legendary, rare, uncommon, common, etc card) All cards will always be able to be obtained through non monetary exchanges, player plays game and through gameplay is rewarded and can use reward to pick any card they want with the wildcard system or w/e it will be called should it be named differently?
I just wanted to get clarification o...
Hey there!
I appreciate your comments, and hopefully I can allay your fears! All of the cards in the game will be obtainable over time for free, be that through getting it from a capsule, using a wildcard, or using shards.
Various cosmetics may have different rules and the purchase options might be more narrow, but we want all gameplay content to be available even if you never spent any money.