I commented on this thread somewhere about this but I would love to see the QP req changed to be 157 for legends quest with the removal of the other reqs even in a future update, would appreciate it if you gave my comment a read if you get a chance! :)
Writing to let you know I've read your comment. :)
FAO: /u/JagexDoom and /u/Jagex_Stu :)
In short, do we get another slayer prefer/block slot after we reach 450 QP?
I didn't work on the Housing of Parliament quest (you can thank Mod Luma for that), but as far as I'm aware, it isn't increasing the number of Slayer block slots. AFAIK the combat council prefer that to remain limited to 8 slots. Similarly, we don't plan to add more rewards to the combat, pet, hub progression tracks in May's quest point shop.
To my knowledge (and I only know what's been shared in a recent livestream), the 450 QP benefits coming with this quest are one more continuation of Philipe Carnillean's adventures, and one more magical die.
This is a great project! The only thing I'm not sure about is now getting a free rune platebody from Wanted!
The list of items that can randomly be obtained are all very low-level/cheap items (including the old bone spear). The rune plate is a reward from Dragon Slayer or it can be made with level 50 smithing (which is a much higher level requirement than anything needed for Wanted!).
It seems like the item/NPC combo could have been just about anything, so why give a significantly more valuable and iconic item here?
Thank you! My thinking in including a rune platebody is that it's a fairly iconic RuneScape item (albeit its significance dates back to Classic), but doesn't have as much significance since the smithable metal tiers were rebalanced (and corresponding changes to Dragon Slayer), while also being a clue that's associated with a particular rune armour merchant visible in passing, so this seemed an opportunity to bolster that significance.
I must admit, the disparity in GE value of the possible Wanted! items hadn't occurred to me. Though getting a free rune platebody during Wanted! may slightly increase supply to help drive that price down a tad?
Read moreJust came back in September and have done 280 quest points worth of quests (on top of my initial 150) and NOW YOU ANNOUNCE THIS 😭😭😭😭
On a serious note, I really appreciate this being done. A lot of people I've talked to ingame really see the requirements as a huge obstacle and quests as tedious. It can really get in the way when you're beginning the game because to actually get some really important stuff you need very high level skills that can seem a lot worse than they are.
When I got back in and decided that I was going to tackle every quest, I chose to use the wiki guide on "optimal quest order" because the list was so immense and I wanted to be sure that I was always going to be able to do something next, and the guide aims to minimize grinding. I think that when people want to do questing, the requirements that are set in front of them for finishing a series and it interrupting them mid storyline can get in the way. Its unsatisfying to do a quest that clearly...
Thank you very much for taking the time to write all this up in detail!
In summary, when adding more fields to the quest overview and associated sorting methods, I was mindful of not rocking the boat by taking away existing sorts to which players may be accustomed. I've only recently risked removing the Difficulty sort, for example, after some adjustment time for Timeline to become a popular sorting method.
I agree with you that some of the sorts (eg Progress, Free/Members) would be better suited as filters. To be honest, it's always bugged me that they're sorting methods!
I'm not sure I agree that some of the sorts are useless. Less frequently used, certainly. While the ideal would be a search function, I regularly find it useful to sort alphabetically to find a particular quest I know by name. And I think they do come into their own more when combined with certain filters - for example, I've found an Area sort combined with Locked and Complete filters help...
Read moreWould it be possible to adjust the dialogues of some npcs around The Dig Site. I remember some of them mansplaining archaeology to me when I had already achieved the guildmaster rank.
Or generaly make the arch tutorial and The Dig Site fit together a little bit more, give digsite a bit of arch xp instead of just mining, make gathering specimens grant token arch xp, have the npcs treat you slightly differently if you already have a certain Arch title unlocked.
I've been hoping for these patch notes for over a year, so I'm very excited, thanks GOD STU
I feel there's a bit of a tricky overlap here between older content that works with a particular theme or science, and the specific mechanics of a RuneScape skill that's similarly named.
There's archaeology (in the sense of the earth sciences exam and the Varrock museum's specimens minigame) and then there's the Archaeology skill (which is a somewhat more cinematic interpretation, with a particular set of distinct excavation, restoration and collection mechanics, entangled in the narrative of the Monolith).
There's divination (in the sense of supernaturally foretelling future events) and there's the Divination skill (slurping up Guthix juice and yeeting it into rifts).
There's the necromancy used by various baddies throughout the storyline, and then there's the Necromancy skill with its particular rituals, the City of Um, consensual conjures, etc.
As much as they share some elements of theme, I don't feel it makes sense to retroactively apply experie...
Read moreChildren of Mah
• No longer requires Fate of the Gods (requires The Light Within which requires Fate of the Gods)On a similar note: Plague's End requires 75 Woodcutting, 75 Ranged and Within the Light, but Within the Light also requires 75 Woodcutting & 75 Ranged. Isn't this kinda the same idea?
If you have WtL you always have 75 WC and Ranged, so these are dead requirements for Plague's End itself.
Unless they are on there for the sole reason of adding more 75 skills, but if that's the only thing stopping it perhaps the requirements for WtL could be lowered to something else?
The ten skill requirements listed for Plague's End, as Sakirth notes, were intended to represent the elf clans of Prifddinas, who each represent two skills. Though it doesn't quite correlate.
A while back, I saw a player suggestion to change this to requiring one of each elf clan's skills at 75, and similarly give a choice between two skills from each of the quest's XP lamps.
ie the quest requirements for Plague's End would become:
75 Farming or Woodcutting
75 Magic or Ranged
75 Mining or Smithing
75 Slayer or Melee (Strength or Attack)
75 Crafting or Construction
75 Summoning or Divination
75 Agility or Prayer
75 Dungeoneering or Herblore
It'd be a fairly big project to ensure all the content in Prifddinas is shored up accordingly (since it was built assuming you'd have 75 in all clan skills), and neither requirement set perfectly matches the skills you use during Plague's End, but I thought it...
Read moreThe 101 quest points for Swan Song and the dialogue about it may need to be looked into. Herman Caranos has the line: "Hmmm... You're not what I'm looking for, but... [number of quest points you have] Quest Points is really rather a lot..."
I think either this line would need to be changed or the quest point requirement maintained.
Good thought! For each affected quest (about 40 in total), the project essentially involved
a] changing the requirements listed on the quest's overview screen (now data-driven thanks to an earlier project, so quite easy),
b] removing hard-coded references to those requirements (usually not too tricky - back before we had quest accept screens, requirements were handled by checking each of the requirements in dialogue with the NPC and blocking progress with responses)
c] making changes to content to accommodate the more ambitious lessened requirements (sometimes tricky).
In the case of Swan Song, that (rather fourth wall breaking) Quest Point dialogue was addressed while implementing b]. :)
I don’t think it’s a good call to remove Goblin Diplomacy from The Lost Tribe’s requirements. I think it actually adds quite a bit to have dealt with the Goblin Village before learning of the Dorgeshuun.
I also think those While Guthix Sleeps requirements shouldn’t be removed. While they are definitely very small connections, I think grandmaster quests with high quest point requirements should make players think “Hey, I’ve been here before- I really am an experienced adventurer, aren’t I?”
From the patch notes, it's a little hard to see how many requirements While Guthix Sleeps has even after some pruning of a few unnecessary branches. Here's the revised version of the top of the mysteries of the mahjarrat series. Hope it provides reassurance:
While Guthix Sleeps:
* Defender of Varrock
* Dream Mentor
* Legends' Quest
* Path of Glouphrie
* Tears of Guthix
* Wanted!
* The Hunt for Surok miniquest
* Shilo Village
* Temple of Ikov
* Ability to enter the Warriors' Guild
* 75 Magic
* 65 Herblore
* 65 Farming
* 65 Defence
* Follows events of: Nature Spirit
Ritual of the Mahjarrat
* While Guthix Sleeps
* Temple at Senntisten (note: continues to require Curse of Arrav)
* Hazeel Cult
* Enakhra's Lament
* Slug Menace
* Fairy Tale II
* Cabin Fever
*...
Read moreIs this project going to be re-categorizing any miniquests as full quests, consequently earning Quest Points? Example: Impressing the Locals being changed after being in the game for almost half a year
No, the focus of this project was on lowering quest requirements where appropriate, so converting miniquests to quests was out of scope.
In general, though, the distinction between quests and miniquests has become quite blurry, now that miniquests are listed in the quest interface.
I think the ideal would be to gradually convert miniquests to quests until we can phase out the concept of miniquests. Most likely starting with the most recent miniquests and working back. The biggest development cost associated with that likely lies in writing the quest journals for those miniquests and localisation thereof.
That would also mean moving those miniquests from master quest cape to quest cape, which possibly may go down better if not delivered all at once.
The other thing that gave us pause when developing the Arc miniquests is that quests with 80+ skill requirements are typically Grandmaster, and that felt a rather extravagant difficulty for the stakes of m...
Read moreI like the changes here! If I could suggest anything, it would be to change the Smithing requirement for Devious Minds from 65 to 31. I know it sounds absurd but if you look at the level, it used to be the required level +1 to smith a Mithril 2H sword. In OSRS it's at least boostable. Since you made certain changes based on mining and smithing rework, I think lowering the Devious Minds smithing requirement is something to consider.
Excellent point. Thank you for pointing this out.
Looks like we missed fixing this requirement for the now tier 30 slender blade in the Mining & Smithing rework.
(Have you heard about the Mining & Smithing rework? Sorry. Habit.)
I've created a ticket for this in the quest qol gamejam skill requirements project on my backlog.
IF you do change it, it very much should be mentioned by the quest screen as a recommended stat, as ironmen cannot obtain the tablets without magic level to make them.
Something like:
- 7 magic, or a friend who can grant you such powers
Honestly would be nice to have that on The Light Within as well, due to crystal flask.
- 89 crafting and 81 mining, or a friend who could provide you what you need
Thanks, Kobra. Good points. I've made note of that!
(Bold of you to assume I have friends. :p)
Make it work with any fire spells, and problem solved. it would be harder to complete potentially with lower magic level, but still completeable.
I imagine that even a 13 Magic req for fire strike might be unacceptably high for some pures?
Perhaps it could be a scene where you can fail but the story continues. (ref. Princess murder-puppying your opponent during Murder on the Border if you are defeated.) After a few attempts, the TzHaar-Mej manage to hatch the egg even if you don't assist?
Regardless, it's thankfully Future Stu's problem!
A lot of my takes have already been brought up here but there's one thing that's midly grinding my gears:
The Hard Fremennik Tasks for Blood Runs Deep. When it came out, and even now, it is quite a unique requirement for a quest to have, and I feel like represents the Player gaining reputation amongst the Fremennik. Considering the only really unique reward locked behind the quest is Balmung, a niche weapon that has since been powercrept at monsters it was BiS as, I feel like the quest could use some "higher" level of requirements as the de-facto ultimate quest of the Fremennik saga.
If it helps frame things better, the surviving requirements for Blood Runs Deep seem to add up to quite a lot: (albeit with some duplication)
* Horror from the Deep
** Bar Crawl
** 35 Agility
* Dream Mentor
** Lunar Diplomacy
*** Fremennik Trials
**** 40 Crafting & Woodcutting
**** 25 Fletching
*** Lost City
**** 31 Crafting
**** 36 Woodcutting
*** 61 Crafting
*** 40 Defence
*** 49 Firemaking
*** 5 Herblore
*** 65 Magic
*** 60 Mining
*** 55 Woodcutting
* Glorious Memories
** Mountain Daughter
*** 20 Agility
** Fremennik Isles
*** Fremennik Trials
*** 20 Construction
*** 40 Agility
*** 46 Crafting
*** 56 Woodcutting
** Royal Trouble
*** Throne of Miscellania
*** 40 Agility
*** 40 Slayer
** 57 Magic
** 50 Agility
** ...
Read moreThank you for digging through everything Stu. Glad to see it! :)
Thank you, Rubic! <3
Will As A First Resort require Big Chompy Bird Hunter now that Zogre Flesh Eaters was removed as a requirement?
For a normal account it probably doesn't matter much, but I don't think ironmen can obtain the 2 raw chompies required without actually hunting a chompy bird.
We don't currently have facility to display ironman-specific quest requirements, but that's a good point... if you're an ironman, you'll have to hunt the 2 raw chompies for A First Resort yourself.
Hey, Stu! This looks great! I did notice one issue, though. You accidentally forgot to remove Mournings End Part II from the game.
Working as intended, I'm afraid. ;)
Please have a look at removing the 75 magic requirement from the elder kiln quest. It would allow pures and skillers to try to get the kiln capes.
We see low level pure inferno runs beeing very popular on osrs, but since we have a requirement locking accounts out from kiln, we cannot get the zuk capes either. I dont see a bot restriction beeing an issue now a days either.I would be very fun to see low level accounts and pures with kiln capes and pures with zuk capes without beeing limited by 75 magic requirement.
Would deeply appriciate if it can be looked into u/Jagex_Stu
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I'm gradually putting together a design for a similar project focused on skill requirements. (Though I'll probably do some smaller gamejam projects for a bit - I started this one in Dec 2022!)
This point in the Elder Kiln is on the list - I appreciate various flavours of pure would love the challenge provided by the Fight Kiln.
From a mechanical perspective, this scene is faking the casting of spells to heat an egg via an interface. You don't gain any XP from heating the egg, you don't have to be on the standard spellbook, and it doesn't consume runes.
I'd want there to be suitable narrative justification for not casting the spells with your own magical skill (you're guiding a TzHaar-Mej's attacks, or are provided with a limitless staff or spell tablets or suchlike), and it may be preferable to bring another of the quest's requirements up to 75 to keep the Elder Kiln in a suitable difficulty bracket, but I'm opening to a...
Read moreThese changes look good, but I don’t love transferring the level requirements onto the reward lamps, especially for the low XP low level lamps (5000XP lamps from King’s Ransom and Between a Rock). We’ve had quests like Waterfall Quest and Knight’s sword that provide substantial XP drops with no level req. before, so the level gatekeeping feels arbitrary when done at the end like this.
Definitely a controversial take, but the Waterfall Quest and Knight's Sword predate our current best practice for quest XP rewards, and from a balancing perspective, it would be preferable if their lamps (or quest accept) either had a suitable level requirement or awarded less XP.
They skip a massive chunk of the initial levels for their skills, and that's where you're learning how to level those skills and getting the most satisfying succession of rapid 'dings'.
On the other hand, the 'mastery knowledge', that there are techniques experienced players can use to accelerate their progress when making alts, is something some players enjoy, so it's a tricky thing to nerf.
In a 2017 TAPP project, I did an improvement project to the Knight's Sword that included converting its 12k Smithing XP reward to a lamp with a suitable level requirement. We ultimately removed the 28 Smithing requirement from the lamp a few months later due to the ongoing outcry.
On t...
Read moreHoly Stu! This is amazing. I read the blogpost. I can't imagine the amount of time that went into this.
Just one thing though, I'm kinda opposed to the Legend Quest being decoupled from all those quests. A mountain of requirements makes you worthy of being a Legend, no?
I certainly agree that Legends' Quest should have legendary requirements!
I think it still achieves that even with a few cuts, though (particularly via that signature Quest Point requirement, as Kobra noted).
It's hard to see from this patch notes format, so here's the updated Legends' Quest requirements:
* 107 Quest Points
* Heroes' Quest
* Jungle Potion
* 50 Agility
* 50 Crafting
* 45 Herblore
* 56 Magic
* 52 Mining
* 42 Prayer
* 50 Smithing
* 50 Strength
* 50 Thieving
* 50 Woodcutting
Been a pleasure to contribute to the list.
Great work as always, God Stu.
Literally couldn't have done it without you, Kobra. Thank you for all the time you put into your initial design and investigation that kicked off the project, and your feedback throughout its gamejam iterations. :)
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