Mark_GGG

Mark_GGG



27 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by TorsteinTheFallen

I'm more interested in monster part of the node.
Does "Nearby enemy monsters' Action Speed is at most 92% of base value" means it will negate any buffs to monster speed or increases will just work on 92% of the monster action speed base?

Neither. It means the exact opposite of the player half - if their action speed without that modifier would be above 92% of the base value then instead it is 92% of the base value.

This is not the same as negating all bonuses because those can still apply in combination with penalties to action speed to partially or fully counter them, just the final result can't be above 92% of the base value.

Comment

Originally posted by Abdiel_Kavash

Would "Enemy critical strike multiplier against you is reduced by x%" work?

That would allow reducing the critical strike multiplier lower than 100%, which is undersirable for this stat, and is more expensive for performance.

Comment

Originally posted by Quakstab

What it actually does is look at the enemy's total critical strike multiplier (default 130% for monsters), subtract 100% from that to leave only the part which makes the damage higher (30% for monster with no crit modifiers), apply a percentage reduction to that value (e.g. 10% reduced from this stat would reduce the 30 to 27), then give the original 100% back and treat that as the critical strike multiplier to use for this hit.

Would over 100% reduced lead to negative values or is there a cap? Example: 110% reduced:

130-100=30, this is reduced by 110% (30*1.1=33) and ends with -3 (30-33). [Potential cap to 0] Then 100 is added back which would be 97%.

This would make crits deal less damage than non crits which is not intended as far as I understood. So I assume there is a cap to prevent this but for brevity sake was omitted in the explanation above. Is this correct and more than 100% reduced doesn't change anything?

The amount of extra damage can't be negative. In general, reducing things by values greater than 100% in PoE is prevented from negating the value.


23 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by MoeFantasy

I'd rather to have reduce reflect damage taken to be function like reduce extra dmg from crits.

That would mean it did nothing, because there isn't a critical strike damage multiplier applied to the reflected damage for it to modify.

And that wouldn't change any of what's complained about in the rest of this thread because increases to that stat are still additive with reductions to it.

Comment

Originally posted by Erreconerre

Sorry, I feel like a brought up a touchy subject lol

Nah, you're fine, I just dislike the misleading description on that specific stat because it implies it stacks with other things that it really doesn't.

Comment

Originally posted by Karindanslav

Slightly off-topic, but since you mentioned that increases and reductions to damage taken apply after mitigation, does physical damage taken reduced (by immortal call for example) count as prevented for purposes of calculating regeneration from Juggernaut's Untiring? And how does Untiring interact with Petrified Blood or Steelskin?

I don't remember the keyword prevented having a specified definition. Thanks in advance.

For physical damage specifically, we store the pre-mitigation value in the damage package so it can be referenced. The amount of damage "prevented" is the amount by which the actual physical damage taken differs from that pre-mitigation value of physical damage to deal.

So basically anything which lowers the amount of physical damage taken counts as preventing, with the specific exception of "damage taken as" modifiers, which apply before mitigation, and intentionally also before the pre-mitigation value is stored (because you didn't prevent that damage, you just took it as a different type).

And how does Untiring interact with Petrified Blood or Steelskin?

It doesn't, neither of those affect the amount of damage taken - they change what and how much you lose as a result of taking the damage, but they do not affect how much damage you take.

Comment

Originally posted by sirgog

Surely this would be simpler if "Critical Strike Multiplier" was replaced as a stat by "Critical Strike Bonus Damage Multiplier". Base values 150%/50% for players, 130%/30% for monsters.

Then "35% Reduced damage from crits" can become "Hits against you have 35% reduced critical strike bonus damage multiplier"

Would make it easier for players to understand the interactions.

This is one of several potential changes to that system which have been discussed in the past as options for the long term. Personally I am in favour of something similar to this change, although it would certainly have consequecnes to other things that would need worked out if we ever do it.

Comment

Originally posted by My-Life-For-Auir

Completely off topic but why is the term 'recently' used to describe different values of time.

I.e. the Warcry Mastery that gives 20% increased Damage for each time you've Warcried Recently is 8 seconds, however almost every other example of 'Recently' I can find is 4 seconds.

Completely off topic but why is the term 'recently' used to describe different values of time.

It isn't (or if it is somewhere then that's a bug).

I.e. the Warcry Mastery that gives 20% increased Damage for each time you've Warcried Recently is 8 seconds, however almost every other example of 'Recently' I can find is 4 seconds.

That is definitely set to be 4 seconds in the code. Are you seeing this count a longer amount of time in-game?

Comment

Originally posted by Erreconerre

What about "You take X% reduced extra damage from crits", does that one also add up with increased damage taken mods?

It's a horrible pile of lies that technically doesn't actually modify damage, but the damage multiplier applied to damage from being a critical strike, in a way unlike anything else in the game.

What it actually does is look at the enemy's total critical strike multiplier (default 130% for monsters), subtract 100% from that to leave only the part which makes the damage higher (30% for monster with no crit modifiers), apply a percentage reduction to that value (e.g. 10% reduced from this stat would reduce the 30 to 27), then give the original 100% back and treat that as the critical strike multiplier to use for this hit.

The design reason it works that way makes sense - it shouldn't be able to make critical strikes damage you less than non-critical strikes, and 100% reduced extra damage taken from crits should just make them the same as non-crits - but I don't like how it's inconsistent with everything else.

I dearly hope to one day be able to burn it to the ...

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Comment

Originally posted by caquaa

While i understand how it works, the question is why? Can't this just be changed from "reduced" to "less" (or just make it not additive)? Seems like an unnecessary complication. I'm sure it's not your call, but would be nice to simplify some of this .

If these modifiers used "less", then the 50% less and the 60% less would combine to an effective total of 80% less (you'd still take 50% of 40% of the damage, for 20%), not 110%, and no amount of stacking such modifiers would remove all of it completely.

Comment

Originally posted by iTob191

I think puerility meant that it's not obvious that "reduced reflected damage taken" and "increased damage taken" stack additively because they could be in different "categories" (reflected damage increases and normal damage increases) and applied at different times in the calculation. Just like "increased damage" and "increased damage taken (on the enemy)" stack multiplicatively (correct me if I'm wrong) even though they both use the term "increased" because they are applied at different times.

I think puerility meant that it's not obvious that "reduced reflected damage taken" and "increased damage taken" stack additively because they could be in different "categories"

This is true, but neither is obvious that they would not stack additively - I am not arguing at all that the exact result is obvious to a new player, only that it is not unreasonably outside expectations - having already learned or assumed that the two reflected damage modifeirs stack additively, it would be unreasonable to assume nothing else could possibly stack additively with them, so the possibily that something can do so should not be a complete surprise to the player.

Just like "increased damage" and "increased damage taken (on the enemy)" stack multiplicatively (correct me if I'm wrong)

Only because you specifically asked, because this is extremely nitpicky: Those do not stack multiplicatively, th...

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22 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by puerility

i mean, it's explicit assuming you already know the damage formula and the very particular way GGG words things. but for newer players, it's not an unreasonable guess that reduced reflected damage is its own separate term in the formula. if the question is "you take 100% reduced reflected damage; how much reflected damage do you take?" and the answer isn't "none", that's kind of a trick question

But if a player doesn't know these modifiers stack additively (which is described in the in-game help system), they wouldn't think they had 100% (or higher) reduced in the first place, because that didn't come from a single modifier. In the case in the OP, there's a 60% reduced and a 50% reduced, and those can only be seen as combining to 110% reduced if you either know or assume these modifiers stack additively, which at the very least implies the possibility that other things also stack additively with them.

if the question is "you take 100% reduced reflected damage; how much reflected damage do you take?" and the answer isn't "none", that's kind of a trick question

The game never poses that question to the player. In this case it's asking "If you have 50% reduced reflected damage taken and 60% reduced reflected damage taken, how much do you take?", and then "what about if you also have 30% increased damage taken?"


21 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by hesdeadgoawayhesdead

While thats true, its not quite what I was asking. My fault though as it wasnt worded very well!

Glad will be causing everything to bleed anyway with minimal investment so its not so much about what is causing the initial explostion. My question relates to what happens after that.

A better way to ask might basically just be whether the bleed explosion applies a stack of CF to other mobs before they die as it counts as a hit. If they do, great as they will have the stack and therefore get the item rarity buff when they die. If they die immediatley without a stack however, then Item rarity on CF is pretty pointless with the exception of mobs that only die to the dot part of CF (bot an explosion from nearby)

If they do, great as they will have the stack and therefore get the item rarity buff when they die.

No, that only means they benefit from that IR bonus if they die from the corrupted blood. If they die from the explosion damage, then that's what killed them, and the IRR support does nothing, regardless of whether they have Corrupted Blood on them from Corrupting Fever (I don't think they would from a single hit, but I can't be bothered checking since the answer doesn't actually matter).


19 Sep

Comment

Lots of stats on Jewellery either can't actually be allowed, or don't actually work, with negative values. In all those cases, we had to set up stats that were a reasonably "reversal" of the core effect to replace the stat if the league mechanic had to reverse those mods.

Regeneration is one of those cases. Regeneration is fundamentally is a form of recovery, and regeneration as a mechanic cannot be given a negative value to cause over-time loss - recovery and loss have to be kept separate internally for a bunch of reasons, many of which relate to keeping characters alive. So keeping the same stats and just setting the values negative would not have worked, and instead we replaced them with the closest equivalent the game can handle, which is over-time loss.

Similarly, added damage can't have negative values because it leads to a bunch of weird edge cases like having maximum damage lower than minimum which intentionally are not allowed and cause the game to spit out...

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14 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by daman4567

So if there are 100 poisons on a target and one has magic find stats applied, but other conditions are all unknown, there's essentially a 1% chance for it to get assigned the kill and apply its quant/rarity?

Yes. Only one poison can be assigned the kill. In practice, it will be the oldest one, because that will be earlier in the list and thus found first (may not be the case for some debuffs with more complicated behaviours, but poison is nice and simple, new ones are just chucked at the end of the list).

Comment

Originally posted by daman4567

How does this work with multiple instances of a dot where only one applies its damage?

Some scenarios, mob hp = 500:

  • only one ignite applied, iir linked and 600 damage left

  • two ignites, one iir linked with 400 damage and 2 seconds, the other not linked with 400 damage and 4 seconds left (the former will apply damage until its duration runs out, then the latter will kill the mob)

  • two ignites, one not linked with 600 damage left and 4 seconds, the other iir linked with 300 damage left and 4 seconds

One last scenario, with poisons where all apply damage simultaneously but the bulk of the damage is dealt without mf stats:

  • two poisons, one iir linked with 10 damage left over 10 seconds, the other not linked with 800 damage left over 4 seconds (both apply their damage because poison)

Based on my understanding it would be yes, no, probably no, yes.

Only the currently running debuffs can even be considered for this - the ones that are ticking down in the background but not currently applying because of a stronger one of the same type aren't even looked at here.

Only the ones currently dealing damage, of a type that technically could have removed the last life, are looked at, and the first one found that fits the above is assigned the kill.


13 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by parzival1423

The fact that someone has to spend time thinking about that CI interaction…have you guys considered axing pvp so even Slightly more work could be put into pve, or in this case, less thought about pvp means more time for pve?

That was just an example. I was pointing out that the system for assigning damage-over-time kills takes into account immunities. That is not in any way tied to PVP.

Comment

Originally posted by Tripartist1

The community doesn't agree with this. Ive already quit the league but seeing discharge get a midleague nerf pisses me off, as you havent allowed this skill to shine since strands meta. This is clever use of mechanics. Discharge takes your current charges, and removes charges down to your minimum charges, and deals damage based on the difference between current and minimum. Having negative minimum charges should work this way. Discharges sets you to -x charges to deal damage, but that value cant currently exist, so it sets you to 0 instead. Instead of totally patching this out, why don't you allow players to have negative/inverted charges, that debuff the player, but allow interactions like this to exist, instead of just killing things like this, embrace them.

I have no idea why me saying "I don't know when this will go live" is being intrpreted to mean "this will definitely go live before the next league", but that's not what I said. I was directly asked if this bug was intented, which is isn't, and responded to that. My job is to fix the bug, not chose when the fix is deployed.

I'd be 100% down with introducing negative charges as an actual mechanic, but that would mean actually following through with the concept, so e.g. the player's per-charge bonuses should also go negative if their current number of charges is negative. That wouldn't change the fact that Discharge specifically says it counts charges removed, so until it can actually remove charges below zero, getting bonuses as though it did so is clearly wrong.

Comment

Originally posted by RealZordan

That being said I know for a fact that there are some exceptions. Vall Lightning Strike will snap shot any damage buffs from the moment it is cast.

No, it won't


12 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by taggedjc

if that debuff is the one that kills them.

How is it determined which debuff kills them if they have multiple debuffs active at once?

The oldest one?

Generally yes, excepting any that can be eliminated as not being able to contribute (such as poison against a CI character)