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RiotMaxw3ll

RiotMaxw3ll



09 Dec

(ARAM) Impossible to push if you get slightly behind.

Comment

Originally posted by kscannon

With the changes, the balance of the champs feel way off too. I know games depend on what is selected but when the majority of one team is dealing a reduced damage and renektan can get one item and tank and kill the majority of a team with a 120% buff to healing and it taking multiple items to deal with and at that point the games over or a rangar with bushes on both side making the center not a safe spot for any back line. The balancing % is making some champs gods and others literal dirt.

this is the crux of a lot of it, and we're prepping a hotfix for the balance outliers right now. We intended the map changes to favor melee champs and disfavor ranged poke champs, and they have, but much more than we intended. We'll have to do follow up work to start undoing the balance levers that were making up for map discrepancies in power.


08 Dec

(ARAM) Impossible to push if you get slightly behind.

Comment

Originally posted by TheMurder21

Its both. Prior to the tower rubble, you could always "see" your opponent unless they were hiding deliberately in a bush but you always had space to maneuver around.

Now even if the enemy retreats, there is nowhere you can go. You are basically always pushing blind while being funneled into the remaining position. This means you are disadvantaged by both lacking vision, and also lacking the ability to maneuver around because you just positioned yourself between a literal rock and a hard place.

This adds to the point of why being behind basically dooms you. It puts you in a position where even trying to crawl back across your line, you are extremely vulnerable to strong counterplays incl. wombo combos.

How do you feel amount of wave clear affects that?

(ARAM) Impossible to push if you get slightly behind.

Comment

Originally posted by dirtydoughnut

Please do not use the idea that shorter Aram games are better to justify the one sidedness that hexgate/respawn timer changes caused. There back and forth was a much more fun dynamic, for all ten players

Definitely agree that short but snowballier does not necessarily equal better. The data I’m waiting on should tell me if taking the first tower leads to a larger increase in wins than previous. If it’s a large difference, that tells me we probably went too far and we can look for solves

(ARAM) Impossible to push if you get slightly behind.

Comment

This is something we're keeping an eye on for sure. I think Hexgates are doing some good things early game, but once we get some more data/games in on first turret win percentage, it might turn out we need something like a cooldown or some other solve. There might be other factors as well (tower rubble is less good for defending teams than we thought) that might adjust these factors as well. A bit too early to tell


15 Nov

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by WeePetal

didn't really create cool vision plays you could make.

Wait do the walls created block vision?

Yes they do

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Infinite_Delusion

Question! Do the ARAM terrains appear in Morde's R? I would hate to R someone and then have them just walk through the terrain that was just there a second ago

I will ask our resident QA member to check into it tomorrow.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Lillerbun

If you ask me obfuscating key information from players is never fair or good game design. I recently got tricked into picking alistar as the sole frontline damage sponge/initiator for my team only to find out in game he takes 10% increased damage. How was I supposed to know that this sub 50% winrate tank support is not supposed to be played as tank?

He's still supposed to build tank for sure; that's the point. He takes 10% increased damage because his kit is built to be a powerful initiator in 5v5 fights and that is far more accessible in an ARAM situation. I took a peek at his win rate in ARAM, and its been oscillating a half a percent under 50% for several patches now on the tank build. You are supposed to play him as a tank. If you read that he takes an additional 10% damage, and that tells you to NOT play him as a tank, then you're going to have a far worse time in that game then if you just built tank items on him.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by dpldogs

Any chance we can get Mastery 6 & 7 tokens added to ARAM? Feels like a missed low hanging fruit and would add to the push for progression-related activities

Mastery tokens are a system handled by a different team, so I can't speak with too much authority. However, best as I can tell, there are two reasons we wouldn't want them in ARAM:

  1. The mastery system encourages you to play a single champion over and over. A lot of the fun of ARAM comes from getting random champions and just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what works. Trying to get mastery by just playing a given champ every time its up is antithetical to the intent of the mode
  2. Mastery tokens are intended to be for players who want to master the skills of a specific champion and show it off. That is their primary audience and therefore its the one we want to make sure is best served by it. As with all merit-based awards, we have to be careful how freely we give them out otherwise it can end up cheapening the experience. I don't exactly think that getting a mastery token in ARAM is hugely problematic, but I want to respect the players who grinded to get m...
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ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Anyammis

Would you be willing to consider adjusting/buffing Umbral Glaive in aram and/or consider making an AP and tank Umbral for them to use also (that could possibly be converted into something for those supports in summoner's rift eventually maybe since it's also asked for a lot there...)

Right now, I have won many games against Shaco, Teemo, Jhin, etc in aram by building Umbral Glaive and oneshotting their traps. It's very powerful to the point I've even taken the hit to my build and built it on enchanters, mages, tanks, etc.

The problems with this, however, are that for some champions, losing an item to a glorified trap cleaner item that gives you no stats feels bad. The second problem is, this item is never recommended in any build ever on aram because it's reveal passive only works if you actually trigger a trap, and most people do not realize it's a good counter to trap champions. Even if you try to communicate by typing or pinging umbral glaive and teemo back to ba...

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Adding it to rec items seems interesting. I hadn't thought of the glaive angle. I will say that people rarely build utility items in ARAM regardless of how good they are, so I'm dubious that it would make enough movement for people to feel better about traps (ie, umbral exists now but people still don't use it versus teemo/shaco). Item counterplay like this leads to fairly one dimensional outcomes; either you buy it and the trap champs can't do much or you don't and you get overwhelmed by traps (sweeper and grevious wounds are other examples of this). It works but the skill test is very low for very weak outcomes in our opinion.

Either way I'll talk to the team about it. Based on the feedback from this thread it seems like trap champ counterplay is up there in terms of current issues with ARAM. Happy to investigate at the very least.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by herptydurr

I think the issue is that there already was an extremely strong choking effect for teams pushing past the first tower/sieging the second, so making that narrow passage an even stronger choke feels redundant. IMO, if the towers are gonna fall over to create terrain, the big holes in the bridge on the right side immediately next to the first tower should get filled in – maybe that's happening? it's hard to tell from the video.

We filled those in. Sorry it wasn't in the article. We did that super early on in the exploration when almost a whole different team was working on this.


14 Nov

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Hector_01

I understand what you mean, but i still disagree with how you balance certain champs. Its a hamfisted way to balance a game which has random team comps and skill lvls. Assasins are super unfun to play against just as much as being poked at range is unfun. But just uber buffing assasins so they can one shot anything in their sight with less risk isnt any better.

I think Assassins with huge damage buffs are unfun to play against, but they certainly aren't powerful without them. We did an analysis of the roster, comparing their ARAM win rate and what we believe the win rate would be without the mods by assigning win rate values to 1% of each mod and then back calculating. In ARAM, assassins had something like a 40% AVERAGE win rate if we didn't have any mods on. The goal here is to find ways of making playing them not garbage but not have to give them tools like "one QE kills half their team"

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by patmax17

How do the debris interact with vision? Do they stop visions like walls do?

they do!

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Ramdatose

Nobody wants terrain in aram the random gaps in the bridge are bad enough.

We fixed those, btw.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by SomethingPersonnel

If the change ends up negative I hope you are more willing to remove it than you guys were with Chem Drake. I can see this change already making the likes of Seraphine and Renata scale even more absurdly than they do now.

Didn't we remove chemdrake after like a month into the year? We only put things in the game we have confidence in, so we want to make sure they have a fair shot. But if something is clearly not working, we will pull it.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by 22bebo

I know League players are frequently averse to it, but did you consider having it fall in a few different ways that were determined randomly? I guess there isn't much difference between "Falls to block off the left half of the bridge" and "Falls to block off the right half of the bridge."

I think these changes look fun either way, very excited for them!

there's slight differences that are hard to notice, but if it falls to the left, it leaves a small gap by the brush so you can sneak through it. If it falls to the right, the lane is closed off on that side.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by leaguelegendsenjoyer

Balance changes don’t come often. How early could we be seeing that power shaved off? Hotfix? After several patches? I only see akali being played by her mains in my games and these upcoming changes in addition to her current buffs sound awful to fight against when in the hands of an experienced player.

Intended to be in the next balance patch. If its super egregious we'll hot fix it after we get the data we need.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Halbaras

If you're targeting certain aspects of champs rather than % buffs/debuffs, would it be possible to target Teemo's waveclear specifically? That's what makes him so oppressive, if he's got a decent teamcomp to support him it's extremely difficult to stop him stalling out games indefinitely by spamming R in the middle of the lane.

I'd be fine if they buffed Teemo's damage to champs if they gutted his R damage to minions.

Ideally we don't, but I'm suspecting in the cases of trap champions (teemo + shaco) we might have to. I'm more interested in fixing these champs specifically then say, trying to rework the vision mechanic of the whole map for just two champions.

We want to see how the map changes affect those two and I expect we'll follow up with changes for them.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by Hector_01

I'm a little confused by the whole balancing of certain champs, when aram is literally a game mode where everyone has a random chance and random skill lvl with different champs, yet you balance by winrate. Akali is a high skilled champ which is obviously hard to master yet you buff the crap out of her despite majority of people who get her, having zero skill and knowledge of the champ. Basically she is much stronger than her winrate would indicate so when someone with some skill on her gets her in aram, they absolutely demolish.

It comes down to "what is the experience we want people to have?" In these cases, we're using Win Rate as a stand in for 'how likely is someone playing this champion able to contribute to winning the game,' which is in itself a stand in for 'did you get to do your thing and have fun?' Because you don't master a champ in ARAM the same way you do in SR, we want to make sure that people who are put on Akali for the first time aren't going to have literal zero fun. The win rate can be low for first game (and it is), but ARAM is a mode that more values just pick up and play rather than sweaty 'just get good.'

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by PureImbalance

Hi! Jumping on this to, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for the updates. It looks great and I am extremely looking forward to it (OMG ARAM CLASH I HOPE I DON'T WORK THAT WEEKEND).
A small note: The bottom pixel brush might be the only change that detracts from the experience rather than add to it. Currently, when there's a (damage boosted) assassin or hook champ on the enemy team, as a squishy it means you're playing the game on the bottom half of the map because due to the width of the lane, you cannot step up to that bush ever. It already happens with Ivern games that the map gets quite hard to contest if there's a fed assassin, the 2nd pixel brush might make it even harder. But I'm sure you'll be monitoring feedback, and I'm ready to be proven wrong! (just my 2 cents from over 10k ARAMs played on my account)

A lot of the changes were made with supporting melee characters in mind. The main goal of this being that melees are generally dis-favored due to the properties of Howling Abyss. The brush is a cool tool that melees can use, and hopefully the increased ability to play make will power them up in a more understandable way such that we don't need to gigabuff assassin damage.

ARAM 2023: Preview

Comment

Originally posted by go4ino

on the topic of energy buffs why no shen?

obv he's fine but im curious if it has to do with him being a tank, or does him having 400 energy factor in?

mostly asking since he's the only energy user left out afaik

We only gave energy buffs to champions who were either:
1. heavily modded, with the intent of removing some of those mods later -or-
2. underpowered.

Shen was neither, so we left him out. It made sense on some level, as his team fight output is more tied to his CDs than his energy levels, and he has a much easier time keeping energy up in 5v5s.