Isn't the object of the OP that Dragon is extremely easy to take?
Yeah, and I agree. The thread has been long and the conversation changed at some point to talking about whether junglers should ever be able to solo dragons at all. Not just on PBE values.
As a support player who refuses to play tanks because the income item sucks to get gold from late, I think there are ways to adjust it to help the lower elo players. One suggestion I have for it is when you reach a certain point in the game, much like the quests for sightstone, give the item a passive where you mark the last minion hit so when it dies by anyone, support also gets the gold.
Edited cause mobile autoswiped tanks as table for some funky reason.
If we had a mechanic like that (cool idea, btw), then we'd implement it from level 1, rather than require players to relearn what an item does again.
Read moreNormally the risk of doing dragon early is that you lose out on so much time/health that the enemy jgler risks falling too far behind that you avoid doing so until you have killed bot (or sometimes mid). With basically all dragons (except infernal) being too strong to solo early game you cannot do it early now. (Infernal is almost always warded early because it's easy to solo and the most contested for obvious reasons)
With nerfing dragon health it becomes a lot easier to take and you can actually do something like
- Top jgl -> Bot -> Dragon
- Clearing Bot -> dragon -> top side
- Top -> dragon -> bot
Some of these might not actually be able to be punished in some match ups because of how certain champs needs to clear a certain side. On top of how some jglers has it a lot easier to do so with the lvl 3 from blue buff jgler now.
The early dragon health now is what makes it needed to be at least lvl 4-5 with a full jgl item befo...
Yes. Great analysis. It's hard to keep track of in a comment thread this long, but I was going about some junglers being able to solo the dragon in today's world, not on the PBE. I think that is a valuable piece of differentiation for a small selection of junglers right now. I am undecided on the state of the early dragons on PBE right now.
Wait wait, you wont reply to my answer, which seem to be what people actually care about, but answer some trivial things about drags? So riot is fully understood how the jungle change will impact and still push it forward for a more clownfiesta game?
So I was right, you guy actually have an agenda to push. You dont want a diversified jungle meta, but a gankfest. Thank you for confirming, I wont ever buy any RP again(probably keep playing cause Im still addicted but when I actually getting sick of this I will quit)
Saying I "won't" reply is a bit harsh. There's a lot of comments in this thread and I'm busy fixing bugs.
As for the other part of your post, I'm sorry you feel that way.
i was meaning the fog of war having loads of particles on the edge but cleaning up the other effects around the screen may make that a non issue
really the issue is the visual clutter, maybe it was the smoke on the top of the screen that was the main issue but it was just adding a lot of noise in general to the screen and it just felt annoying to play
im fine with effects but they shouldnt be a detriment to gameplay unless that is literally the whole point of them
Yeah totally agree with you. We had those effects to get that infernal "feel" before we had better, less distracting methods. Tomorrow's version should be better for you. Let me know if not.
Iron players (and all lower ELO players) are still players too? We should care about them as much as we care about Grandmaster players.
There's a billion moving parts in League, and NOT hard shoving late game just so your support can grab some gold is not a skillcheck I think we need to have. I prefer players assisting each other in intuitive ways instead.
Logic like this (and everything riot has done to the game from s6 and onwards) is why all of the streamers/high elo players say the game is garbage.
You dumb down the game instead of putting in tools to help the people who are worse at it improve.
Do YOU think the game is garbage? I'm more interested in what you think than what you say someone else thinks.
Also, it sounds a little hyperbolic to suggest that ALL high ELO players and streamers think the game is bad. Removing nonsensical mechanics in favour of logical ones is just better for everyone.
So if junglers who can take dragon early have that advantage, what advantage would you say other junglers have given that the dragon buff would provide a decent advantage for said early dragon takers?
Well, if you know an enemy jungler CAN solo a dragon at level 4, can be fairly easy to interrupt/disrupt them as they do. It's not a given they just get it for free.
Plus, if you drop the first 2 dragons (but clear out their jungle/take herald at 8 mins instead) you can come back into it. There's loads of ways to have impact on a game in League, got to find the one that works against those junglers.
No, that just sounds awful. It means every role around you needs to understand the intricacies of Support items on top of millions of other things to not Rob you of gold and thus make you sad.
You play one game of league of legends with a tank support and you know what the blue swirls around the support mean and do. It's up to you/your team to determine "Do I want to give us extra gold or do I want to just mindlessly push/farm like the iron player I am?"
League being able to make choices is why old seasons were so much better than new ones. There's barely any choices in the game you can do now due to riot pruning items/skills/ratios.
Iron players (and all lower ELO players) are still players too? We should care about them as much as we care about Grandmaster players.
There's a billion moving parts in League, and NOT hard shoving late game just so your support can grab some gold is not a skillcheck I think we need to have. I prefer players assisting each other in intuitive ways instead.
pls make the infernal dragon fog effort less obnoxious.
Tomorrow's PBE build will have far less "smoke" particles at the top of the screen, but were you instead referring to the red hue in the fog itself?
Have you considered a dragon debuff that decreases the damage you give to dragon along with a healing and shielding debuff but only if the dragon is being soloed?
My rain of thought is to make it difficult for a single lvl 4 jungler to solo it but make it easy for 2 people.
Due to lack of wards in the early game, having a missing laner would be a good trigger for people to check drake
I think allowing some junglers to express their personality or strength through being able to take early dragons solo is totally fine. If all junglers can do it, it becomes THE THING YOU HAVE TO DO. Which is far less cool imo.
I like the dragon buffs for the most part, but the ocean drake has felt a little controversial. It is hard to put it into words, but the main issue is that even if it gives your team a little advantage when it comes to the regeneration it provides, it also has opened up a window for losing. At the skill-level I play it is normal to throw the game a little bit by someone getting caught in the jungle either by facechecking the brushes or not warding properly when going to splitpush a sidelane. The extra brushes, especially the one next to red buff and the one between blue buff and river have been a little problematic in this matter as people start to pick up sweepers over warding trinket and the support cant provide enough vision around the area even if the team provides aid to him/her with pink wards.
So your issue is with ocean terrain, not the buff or ocean soul? The idea that it's now more dangerous to move around the map during an ocean game?
How so? I've always found it very tricky to get the execute late game when my team wave clear so rapidly. Felt like gold left on the table which isn't there as an issue on pbe.
You don't think that shouldn't be a drawback on the item?
For a balance team that decided "f**k the individual player, the game is 95% teamplay now" you'd think that having to depend on your team not to kill every single minion before your autoswing timer goes off is an intended thing.
No, that just sounds awful. It means every role around you needs to understand the intricacies of Support items on top of millions of other things to not Rob you of gold and thus make you sad.
It's like back when the correct play against Illaoi tentacles was for allies to NOT kill them. That was also creating bad feels within your team due to unintended nonsense rules.
Go further than reverting its health. Dragon needs a health increase. Why can objectives like Dragon and Baron be soloed at all?
Well that entirely depends on champion. Evelynn's not soloing dragon at level 5, but Udyr and Warwick probably are. No amount of HP is going to stop that, since it's their ability to keep themselves healthy that enables this behavior.
And before you suggest "Just increase it's damage, then", we don't want to make dragon takes riskier for groups of champs, else no one will want to risk taking early dragons for fear of being wiped.
Tier 3 relic shield feels awful without relic stacks
How so? I've always found it very tricky to get the execute late game when my team wave clear so rapidly. Felt like gold left on the table which isn't there as an issue on pbe.
Good feedback. Thank you for your thoughts.
This is ominous.
Oh, no, I'm not involved with our awesome lore/narrative team. I just love it when people discuss theories!
I love this post and reading all the comments.
If I have one suggestion, people (myself included) seem to be unclear if the set bonus for the Lethality items will stack at 2 items (is it 10 CDR and 15 lethality each or in total?) Which is it meant to be? I was under the impression of it being that if you build 2 lethality items you get an additional 10 CDR and 15 lethality total, not each.
Correct, it's total. It's just like an item set bonus in WoW or Diablo.
If I have one suggestion, people (myself included) seem to be unclear if the set bonus for the Lethality items will stack at 2 items (is it 10 CDR and 15 lethality each or in total?) Which is it meant to be? I was under the impression of it being that if you build 2 lethality items you get an additional 10 CDR and 15 lethality total, not each.
Correct, it's total. It's just like an item set bonus in WoW or Diablo.
The execute threshold better be low like 2-5% or something. If it's too high this shit gonna be crazy
You want there to be a 2% execute threshold?
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