Would you be able to confirm if the death rework changes will require any reaper points? I think it would be fair to give the community a heads up if something like this is locked (timegated) behind a hefty sum of reaper points. u/JagexJack
No, these are changes to the baseline mechanics, not a reward or unlock.
Seems like a waste of dev time
It's the evening in the UK.
Ah okay, in Mod B's part they kept using the 'she' pronoun. Made me think there was something going on I didn't know.
Yeah colloquially we call her a she because of the hair. Lorewise though Croesus is a genderless fungal entity which isn't even intelligent.
It confirmed Croesus is a she!
Croesus is an it.
Did this post confirm:
Elder demons as the next level in the hierarchy
Ed4 will begin in the sentisten underground.
Zammy boss fight is in the wilderness crater?
Elder demons are just Tsutsaroth demons. This isn't new lore.
I've never time trialled it in game, but the underlying balancing assumptions are here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c4ZfTXNCHMp_SocZ99eDMfdbPdFXbl0M6U_oQlOpyM8/edit?usp=sharing
For sure, but I'd say it started before Archaeology. It was just gradual. I agree Archaeology was the tipping point though, the point where it was felt.
But take the EDs for example; Those are full of lore, are pretty much entirely PvM content from a gameplay perspective, and yet if you go back to Temple of Aminishi's release it predates Archaeology by almost 2 years.
Simultaneously, they're a distinct shift from when we got Araxxor for example. "There's a really big angry f**koff spider boi in a hole over there. That's it." It took years for Araxxor and Araxxi to be retroactively labeled Colossi, and we still don't really have any other information about them; There was going to be an Araxxor quest at some point but it got shelved/never made it into the "planned" phase in the first place.
The distinction with the strategy of the EDs as opposed to the EGWD is that the EDs follow the model of Mazcab - they set their own story and aesthetic, separate from the "main" story of RS (although there kind of wasn't one at the time, we were still in a holding pattern after Endgame). The EDs do a better job than most similar things by making a high degree of effort to integrate into the existing world (characters like Bryll, recurring stuff from Ports and the Arc, dragonkin, etc) and also by starting and finishing a story across a short series of updates rather than leaving it hanging.
The EGWD though works quite differently to this by being part of the main story, in terms of quests leading up to it and out from it - rather than a story separate from RS, EGWD "is" the story of RS during that period.
Funnily enough Archaeology was also intentionally developed not to plug into the main story. There's more to say about that in a future livestream or something, but...
Read moreIs it not the EP's responsibility to determine how update planning and scheduling happens? They may not be directly involved in the story planning, but setting up the thematic update planning we've seen with EGW and now Legacy of Zamorak would seem to be the "big picture" stuff I'd assumed the EP decides (with input for you and other team leaders of course).
It does depend a lot on company and department. When I worked at Rockstar, the EP at the time (Leslie Benzies) was functionally the creative director and lead designer as well, which has good sides and bad sides. On RuneScape, which is a huge, complex, multi-faceted game with a lot going on beyond the content itself, the EP has to wear a lot of different hats and deal with a lot of different people, both above and below them. In the specific case being referenced here, of the EGWD and the way story plugs into it, none of that really involved Mod Warden at all.
The general strategy to plug story into all or at least most updates was mine, along with the more specific story elements of delivering the elder gods in the form of a god wars dungeon, splitting that dungeon into four updates, etc.
Mod Jack runs the lore and such, but it’s actually the executive producer who technically makes this sort of call. Which means, Mod Warden (who came from games with these long arch plotlines) is the key factor to making it the plan, and then Mod Jack for executing it
This isn't the case. In principle an EP could get involved at the level of the story that we tell and the way we deliver it, but in practice none of our EPs ever have. In general they have higher level responsibilities to deal with than this.
Read moreYes, this sounds close to what I was saying. We have a high expectation and that places restrictions on what you can do due to the time frame. Ambiguous endings are fine with us as long as they're touched on later (such as seeing Zamorak stop the edicts placement and then the gods remain and that explains why Zammy is a repetitive boss) and then we get another quest furthering the story later. This I think would be better than rushing it just to be done with this particular line.
I am hopeful of what you and your team are capable of, I truly am, just also fearful because I desperately love this game and don't want it to ever be ruined. I wish communication could be improved on but as I know in my own career field this may be difficult to do as promising things always leads to misinformation or misguided judgment if it is not met (such as people blaming you for an off-hand comment and thinking it was an official release statement of the content).
I'm not sure if we c...
Thanks, no worries. You should be seeing more communication about this soon.
So going back to something like how the HAM or dwarf storylines works (e.g., several quests dealing with a seemingly small problem located near a single kingdom but grows to a larger organization, but still a manageable threat and conclusion has new content/areas to explore)?
I'm in the same boat of the newest quests require wayyyy to much background in order to know what's happening, despite not requiring it. I like escalating questlines, but aside from inside jokes/minor references to other quests, think they should be more separated. And it's hard to have a quest with a focus on "this guy is a big threat" meanwhile you have elder gods threatening existence.
Maybe after several of these smaller threat questlines, we get a GM quest that ties in those threats or people we meet in those quests to conclude that chapter and start semi-fresh again. We probably don't need a RotM/Endgame again with quest reqs, but maybe closer to Birthright of the Dwarves or even Extincti...
Yes exactly. Right now the stakes are so high and the plot points are so dense that every quest we make is like Infinity War. We've been making back to back Infinity Wars for ten years.
Read moreI dont know your name that much or many things of Jagex, I just enjoy the game you have all provided and I want to thank you for having shaped me in my early years growing and even to this day with how much I enjoy the game.
I just want to give my 2 cents that what I believe many of us want to say is we would prefer an ambiguous end, one that gives a pause to this quest series and let's us know it will continue years later, but one that gives us a VERY high quality quest. The world wakes was the first grandmaster quest, and the finale to this quest series should be one that opens the door to other plot points, rather one that squeezes plot points together. Nothing that has to be set in stone, but definitely something that can be approached years later to be explored more immersively.
I may speak for myself but what I believe we don't want is for this to be rushed. We had expectations on the roles of gods in our game, now we're banishing them, so what was the point o...
Honestly I think that's a failure of communication on our (by which I basically mean my) part. We don't see it as a change which limits the story, but rather one which opens it up. The problem with plot points like the elder gods, gods, elder artefacts, etc is that they demand resolution - everything in the setting either conspicuously revolves around them, or makes you wonder why Armadyl hasn't just teleported in and dealt with the problem in ten seconds.
To us this really frees us to tell a broader variety of stories - a warlord can threaten a kingdom now, without that just being a blip on Saradomin's morning diary. I don't think we've done enough yet to really sell that - on the other hand though, to be fair, it's been less than a week since the quest came out. A lot of people haven't even played it yet.
Completely agree on all points Sliske.
I disagree with with your points on "understanding the story". This is Jagex's fault: you've made quests doable without doing the quests that narratively come before it. I get why you've done it - I don't agree with it, but I don't run a business so w/e - but it's worth noting this problem is entirely self designed. Nuking the story to get out of this hole could be interpreted in a bad way (as is the case here).
I kind of agree with OPs points about the direction the story is taking, but the difference is I'm willing to give it a chance.
Personally I wouldn't wait long to get on with the next bit of the story so players aren't left with a bitter taste (which I think you might be doing? Unsure).
Yeah I mean I agree. It's a muddle - the problem of course is that adding requirements doesn't make the quest any more accessible.
You'll be finding out more about the story before the boss launches, I believe. I'd also like to start talking about 2023 a bit sooner too - recent stuff has all been very plot twisty, which has made it difficult to talk about the future (imagine announcing the zamorak boss before eye of het even). Hopefully things won't be so twisty in future, which will free us up at least to talk in broad terms about where things are going.
on topic question but one you might know the answer to, will we see anything with Arposandra in the near (say 5 years) future?
My aspiration (not a promise) is to move through the world paying attention to each area in turn. If that works out, I'd definitely expect to revisit the gnomes when we get to Kandarin. I can't speak to when that would be in terms of timescale.
Since we'll (probably) be losing our official World Guardian title, does this mean that we'll be getting more quests again in the lines of Chef's Assistant and Gertrude's Cat?
I mean, it's cool to do normal stuff, but I feel like there isn't any real recognition to us being the World Guardian in-game at this moment, since most NPCs (aside from the Gods) treat us like commoners anyway. It would be cool if we had some world-progression displayed through dialogs (or statues (since the player removes a statue during a quest, can't remember which one)) as they complete more quests. It doesn't have to be much, but stuff like Juna and the other champions in the Champions Guild talking about WG's achievements just make the game more immersive imo
I feel like I've created a misleading impression here in talking about the game's scope. The idea isn't to return to doing menial tasks for people, but that a good level of threat would be a villain that threatens say a city or a kingdom rather than the entire world or the entire universe.
Read moreIt is in game as an established thread in multiple pieces of content. Are you really going to pretend that the original plan wasn’t for this to be built upon and you have now changed things because you just don’t want to put the effort in?
This is exactly my problem with Jagex. It is not that you aren’t perfect and that you make mistakes. That is understandable. It is the pathological refusal to acknowledge those mistakes and therefore take actions to stop those mistakes being repeated. So the player base suffers time and again from you repeating the exact same mistakes.
You used an analogy of switchscape earlier, let me explain with an analogy. You are a politician. You do not accept responsibility for mistakes or accountability, you refuse to engage in self-reflection and then you gaslight people when they bring up your past comments because that doesn’t suit the narrative you are tying to sell at the current time.
The lack of consisten...
I realise that now Mod Osborne has left I've become the default punching bag for whatever is going on in your life, but if you actually want to improve RS in any way rather than just lashing out at people on the internet, this isn't the way to go about it.
You not understanding how game development works doesn't say anything about the truth of what I'm telling you. You not liking the explanations I give you for how and why things happen doesn't make them any less true. You insulting me doesn't change either of those things either.
It is the pathological refusal to acknowledge those mistakes and therefore take actions to stop those mistakes being repeated. So the player base suffers time and again from you repeating the exact same mistakes.
Learning from our mistakes is exactly what I'm doing. Let me be clear: many of the choices made in the Sixth Age, were, in retrospect, a mistake. Not because I don't like the lore (that'...
Read moreThe part about being no “onboarding” part to the story, I thought the whole point of The World Wakes being doable at any level was the fact it was the start of the new age and the story, that serves as a fine starting point in my opinion?
Also it’s still no reason to abandon (arguably) RuneScapes main story, just cause people can’t jump in at the latest quest and understand everything? That’s like saying people can’t jump into the last Harry Potter books and understand what’s going on so we should scrap it. If you want to make a new arc people can jump Into then just do it, you don’t have to write off the main story just to start another, we’re losing the most interesting shit RS ever had, I was super excited for Xau Tak
Well the strict quest requirements, and the level of lore familiarity necessary to get onboard are two different things. The World Wakes was the intro quest to a brand new, extremely high fantasy, super high powered RPG game. An analogy I think works is that you sit down to play D&D, and the GM says "okay guys, we're starting with level 40 epic character - you're the foretold saviours of the world and you're going to be battling the gods themselves during the time of troubles".
For people like chaos elemental and the others who felt really engaged with the story promised by the sixth age, that's a super exciting premise. Some people like that overwhelming sense of being dropped in the deep end and just rolling with it.
To be clear we're not abandoning the story. Abandoning it would have meant, in 2019, having a miniquest where Sliske is explicitly confirmed to be dead, Jas makes it clear that she'll give humanity 1000 years to prove themselves to her, and the gods a...
Read moreYour answer is incredibly disingenuous and ignores all context.
Skorpios and the Queen of the Ashes are not comparable. The Queen of Ashes was mentioned in Hero’s Welcome as an active threat likely to head to Gielinor in the future alongside Tuska and Xau-Tak, gods which have received content since then. It is clear that this was not just a background detail but set up for the future direction of the story like with say the Broken Needle. This was then followed up with the Fallen Nihil event.
This isn’t me adding anything and anything to the shelf, this is highlighting a plot thread that seems to be abandoned and your comments showing exactly what is wrong with Jagex and why this post was made in the first place. Jagex changes major details and decisions on a whim resulting in an unsatisfying unengaging narrative that players cannot enjoy.
You can't abandon something which was never in progress to start with.
Not sure you can even answer this question but the only thing I'm kinda bummed about is the plotpoints of Zaros in Erebus and Azzanadra ascending
With the Edicts being put up again are we safe to say that those two points are a closed chapter now or is it possible to see them revisited in future with a "technically not on Gielinor" part/quest?
Erebus was never intended to be the next big thing. We don't want to get trapped into a situation where we're constantly escalating to the next threat, even bigger than the last threat. The gods threaten the world. The elder gods threaten the universe. Erebus threatens reality itself, etc. It got a bigger role in Extinction than originally intended simply because Mod Orion wanted to include it, and had a cool idea for it.
WRT both Erebus and Zaros there's no particular reason to trust that the edicts affect either of them. When Zaros is ready to return, he will.
I guess this means the Queen of Ashes will be joining Rite of Passage on the things-we-are-never-going-to-actually-get-to shelf?
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about how the shelf works. QoA was never announced. There has never been an update that reached even the cursory planning stages that included QoA in any capacity. She was a mention in a lore book (of approximately the significance of Skorpios) which never went anywhere, until she also got "harbinged" in a live ops event with lore of dubious quality, again with no specific update planned or promised.
If you're expanding the concept of the shelf to mean literally anything ever mentioned in lore, then the shelf loses all meaning.
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