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May I ask why the imperial mandate nerf? Feels kinda bad as a support.
Most supports shouldn't feel this change much. Only the super heavy cc layering ones should (and also rylais users in mid lol)
May I ask why the imperial mandate nerf? Feels kinda bad as a support.
Most supports shouldn't feel this change much. Only the super heavy cc layering ones should (and also rylais users in mid lol)
Hey! One thing that could help AP Shyv without adding more damage to her E would be a slight decrease on E cooldown. Losing the 20% CDR from Nashors and 10% early CDR from Runic really hurt her AP builds. The items themselves aren't that bad on her, it's just that she can't get near similar amounts of CDR now.
Buffing E CD would also help out toplane Shyvana a bit. By the way, what are your thoughts about Shyv top at riot? Do you view it as an unhealthy thing that should be discouraged or are buffs that would also significantly help top Shyv very much possible?
While still a buff, E CD reduction wouldn't benefit AD Shyv jungle nearly as much outside jungle clear. Most of the time one E mark is enough in a duel and if the fight lasts long enough for the second E to come up, it's most likely decided already. It's quite rare that I can actually keep smacking people constantly in a way that a slightly higher uptime on the E mark would actually have a significant impact...
I think it's kinda cool top Shyv is a thing (its actually quite good too)
What are your thoughts on Ezreal? He's pretty much had the lowest winrate among ADCs for the entire patch. Dude got nerfs after nerfs between the Muramana changes and the Q bugfix/nerf and has gotten nothing in return. Yes, I understand that Ezreal usually has a below 50% winrate because he's a very popular character, but his play rate's also decreasing alongside his winrate (still the 3rd highest play rate, probably because a lot of those people are just switching to Jhin or Kai'sa), and said winrate usually hovers around the mid 47%-48%, not 46%.
Part of me wants to think his winrate is because people are still rushing Manamune over Divine Sunderer (the latter being a much stronger 1st item in my opinion), but I don't have the data on that. I just wanted to hear you guys' opinions on his current state.
A lot of people are indeed turbogriefing ezreal builds but he's definitely struggling some so he may see some love despite the build failures.
I feel like I'd like to make the argument that players came to prefer AP Shyvana because of circumstance rather than inherently preferring it to the other options. Shyvana's mini-rework where a lot of power was shifted into her ability to use her E as a nuke shined really really hard. Historically, before that happened, she was consistently a brawling on-hit or tank-oriented character which makes a lot of sense with her kit: a dragon jumps at you and just starts running you down.
Well, it's been more than a while since those changes and AP was just stronger as opposed to her original playstyle for a while so it's really no wonder that AP is the more common build path. Personally, I've been playing Shyvana top off and on since season 4 and still don't understand what the allure with AP is, or even it's power fantasy. I feel like that fantasy with the fire breath is really disconnected from what old Shyvana players liked about her, like myself.
From what I've seen over the last year AD Shyv has fairly consistently outperformed AP but AP has been much more popular. I suspect it's different strokes for different folks
Hey Phlox, really appreciating your feedback on Shyvana.
I prefer AD Shyv, in part because I've off/on mained her since S3, but mostly because I like to be a champ when my ult isn't up.
As of now Shyv is the only champ in the game I can think of that who's ult doesn't cd when dead. If you changed this somehow it would buff AP Shyv a smidge more, while making games from behind as Shyv less tilting. The whole no rage regen while dead makes Shyv more feast or famine which is personally a style of champ I usually avoid.
Also what would you think of buffing the overgrowth rune for junglers? As of now it ramps much slower for average junglers, and Shyv is the only farm style jungler that appreciates tank/bruiser stats (i.e. Yi/Karthus won't suddenly be taking it). I know Sejuani takes it, but it doesn't give a lot of hp, its mostly just to activate warmogs by her second item. (Also Sej could use the tiny buff)
We've actually talked a bit about the no-regenning while dead. Can't say much about it here but its definitely odd.
Could see overgrowth buffs if its underpowered in JG, good callout!
How is riven doing for the balance team atm?
Not great, but not terrible. Would be curious to know what Riven players really want for a buff if they were to get one. (I'm not personally super familiar with the current state of the champion)
You can get enough sample size by using all ranks and multiple patches for 10k games. Which is more then enough to get a good estimate on the strength of it, it's clear it out performs any other mythic. Even when checking commonly built secondary items/runes that could potentially inflate/decrease a mythics winrate.
I was mostly just curious how Riot approaches making changes to champions when they are building poorly and can adapt. For example I know Gangplank also suffers from this where Ravenous Hydra is insanely good on him but not built much.
I'm actually much more concerned about Sunderer. (Similar winrates but actual playrate) I don't think it's bad if Senna is decent with that item however
hey man, i don't really care for the syhvana part but just wanted to let you know its really amazing how you and other devs share information into how you address issues (balance wise).
I hope even after you receive backlash for patches (and lets be honest, some are questionable) you know that your work is appreciated and im really glad you guys do this. Other games could learn.
<3
Could you give us some data on this? I know a lot of people are adamant that AP Shyvana is better than AD so it would be nice to have data to back the claim up. If you can't provide it, that's totally fine and thanks for your comments!
Sure! Shyvana with Harvester is ~6% worse than Whipchain or Botrk first. Nashors is ~4% worse than those two.
Trinity is almost as good as the other fighter items and Sunfire first is right in the middle (Frostfire, Kraken Slayer, and Sunderer kinda sleeper tho)
Yes, but she has above 50% winrate building frostfire, and that item is also getting buffed. Are you concerned people will notice that build path's strength along with the buffs and she might be too strong.
Her winrate is garbage atm because people are building eclipse every game for some reason.
Frostfire Senna is such a small % of her games right now that it's actually hard to get proper power reads on it (too low sample size). We may well have to do followup work on her for Frostfire or Divine Sunderer or whatever else though
Hello I was wondering if you could tell us if the veigar buffs are coming next patch? He seems to be struggling greatly with the removal of glacial related items.
Sorry can't confirm anything (stuff always changes) but Veigar has definitely been looking a tad sad
As someone that plays AP Shyv over AD, the reason I do it is because its just more fun and flashy. Also it leans more towards the dragon theme than AD does.
For AP, you're blasting out powerful fire, like a dragon ought to. For AD, you're just punching things. I don't pick a dragon to just punch things, that isn't visually satisfying. Seeing a fireball chunk people for nearly half their life though? That is satisfying.
Hell yeah, I agree. We can leave E exactly as strong as it is now (quite strong) but help you like clear or whatever too. There's a bit of danger in putting ALL your power there for game health reasons imo
Obviously i don't have the stats you have access to, but from my experience and from data websites, only galeforce Varus does well in the current meta, and the 30s cd nerf will probably affect him way more than those buffs.
The way i see it is that the mana buff wont change the fact that you have mana limitation early game and will not be enough to skip PoM or manaflowband so it won't really do much.
The ult buff is alright but you still can't use it as a primary engage tool in most cases because of how easy it is to dodge.
Lastly to comment on Varus performances, with a 1.5% pick rate and 60% of games being played lethality/AP, the crit Varus games are mostly just otp and mains who play the champ well enough to compensate for his many weaknesses
Kraken Slayer and Shieldbow are both within a %winrate of Galeforce (KSlayer being essentially just as good). The hurricane changes helped him a lot here.
There are enough games with those items I suspect it isn't just OTPs but it may be a regional bias (like maybe a bunch of KR players love ASPD Varus or smth idk)
I mean he IS getting buffed, but is it lower than mundo?
Its similar to Mundo except Mundo jg in low elo is slightly better than any senna winrate lol. (They're both sad)
thoughts on shyvana? I do believe she was slated for buffs
I have a quick list testing on internal environments right now. Shyvana is a bit tough in that her AD/Bruiser/Fighter builds are very good. At the same time Shyvana players overwhelmingly enjoy AP builds.
Right now AP Shyv is terrible but I would rather not just buff her E blasting so gotta do a bit more exploration.
As always, can't promise anything is going to happen with these explorations!
It's the wrong nerf. It might achieve the same end result power wise. But it would've much more healthy for the game to hit the damage and not the CD.
Can u/RiotPhlox explain why the CD instead of the damage was nerfed? Feels like nerfing the active damage would lower burst damage in the game that everyone is complaining about, fit better with the theme of the item being a repositioning tool for a DPS class, discourage poaching from non-marksmen who get it for its active nuke(talon), and still let the item feel good for why it was created --- let marksmen have agency(dodge/kite/chase) and fun.
I just cannot understand the CD nerf instead of an active damage nerf. What's the thought process here?
Sorry I dont personally have good context on this change.
I do know that generally we want Galeforce's Active to have a strong tradeoff between aggressive uses (go forward and burst) and defensive uses (kite and dodge skillshots) so if either direction is too weak the item becomes a lot less interesting. Suspect there were many other considerations as well
Those Senna buffs are actually huge, I don't know if buffing her this much is really necessary at one time.
Senna support is either the lowest or close to the lowest winrate in the game, shes really strugglin rn.
I didn't expected much from the Varus buffs but holy shit this is disapointing
Varus is interesting for us to buff in that his crit/as builds are actually performing quite well, they're significantly higher winrate than lethality builds but lethality is much more prevalent.
This should help out the Muramana caster builds some.
Interesting. There's no version control setup in place to prevent this? Or i guess pbe *is * the version control sorta?
Smaller changes go straight to PBE but bigger ones with more chances of bugs/chaos tend to sit on internal environments for longer periods for testing/QA/etc.
Chempunk Chainsword
Health lowered from 200 to 150
Total cost lowered from 2700 to 2699
Combine cost lowered from 400 to 399
????
That was an accident lmao. I intended to type in 300 but hit 99 instead of 00. Should be resolved for tomorrow's PBE