Long story short this was my personal project which hit some quality snags at the last minute and had to pull back for extra QoL dev time. I’m a bit slow at iterating as it is, and then my daughter was born the week after, so once I return from baby bonding time I’ll be looking to get these out to players with a bit more polish.
I checked this and don’t see anything wrong. Can you clarify?
JK our QA testers found it; multiple E’s in quick succession don’t give extra stacks. We will get the bug noted thanks for the report.
No fix for rengar e not giving conqueror stacks man and now they are going to forget about him for another year 😔
I checked this and don’t see anything wrong. Can you clarify?
Some of the stack counters are nice, but one in particular I honestly wouldn't want it for is Xin Zhao. One of his common plays is to Q then AA something twice, then engage on a target with Q3. That play becomes much more telegraphed if he has a marker for that. This isn't something that would affect his winrate, but it does remove some skill expression unnecessarily.
(Note, we actually won't be doing the champion secondary resource QoL this patch, gonna let it cook a bit more internally):
As of right now, all of these changes are player-only. So in the Xin Zhao case, enemies would not see you charge up to your knockup via this UI. It's meant to help the player, not the opponents.
Definitely something we could/should add. I’ll make a note
That's a great explanation of why popular champs can't be overpowered and I agree with it. It doesn't explain why they should LOSE winrate i.e. go below 50 just because they're popular.
Imagine riot released a champion tomorrow that was just the most fun champ they ever created, it's actually really balanced but it's so fun that everyone wants to play it and it gets a really high pickrate. I don't think that champion should be made weak just cos everyone loves playing it?
To be fair, winrate has to come from somewhere. Not every champion can be >50%. If unpopular/niche champions are >50, and popular champions are 50, who's below 50%? In addition, the total pick-rate of all <50% champions needs to equal the >50% champions. As such, super popular picks being <50% affords the most other champions to be strong/viable.
I remember that Phreak mentioned that Crit ADCs and AD assassins were hit the hardest by the item changes, so I'm kinda surprised to see only the first group being addressed this patch.
There is still work left to be done. We have follow-up work slated across most classes for this patch (the one you're reading) and subsequent patches. It just doesn't make sense to try to swing for every class at the same time.
Also, not every class needs itemization changes to fix their issues either. Different classes and systems require different levers and tactics. We patch biweekly and have a lot of content, so give us some time to work through it diligently.
midgame then? I think he doesn't have good enough target access or defensive tools to be good late game. I mean I'm not saying he falls off a cliff or anything, but I'd definitely put him as weaker@35min than camille, syndra, raka, or a bunch of other champs this chart puts below him.
Its important to consider inter-lane play. Sure kayn might not be late-game skewed by all champion standards, but by jungle standards he is. As such, he will drive the win-rate for late-game up relative to the junglers he's against.
Read moreNot to say we wouldn't do this in the future, but this has been explored by us internally (I personally did an exploration on this around 4 years ago). The conclusion we came to was that even with my team (of diamond+ players) could not observe any meaningful difference in how quickly the game updated. In the VAST majority of cases, players are being limited by their ping and not the server's tickrate. Getting a marginal performance improvement of this type would also bring a number of risks:
- Servers have to work (around) twice as hard, self explanatory.
- We have to make sure nothing bugs out due to this. Solve-able, but costly regardless and may have long-term butterfly effects of bugs and how your champions feel.
- Lower tickrate means more time for the server to resolve "conflicts" and run calculations. This means its less likely to run into bugs/miscalculations with things like stats, and gives the server time to optimize the packets/information it ...
To clarify, we could not observe any meaningful difference and we were on 0 ping testing internally.
Not to say we wouldn't do this in the future, but this has been explored by us internally (I personally did an exploration on this around 4 years ago). The conclusion we came to was that even with my team (of diamond+ players) could not observe any meaningful difference in how quickly the game updated. In the VAST majority of cases, players are being limited by their ping and not the server's tickrate. Getting a marginal performance improvement of this type would also bring a number of risks:
It says passive enhances her healing but none of the skills mention that they heal?
Otherwise as expected from an AP toplaner. Short range, high mobility low CD skill spammer and will inevitably join (as the last clip shows) every other AP bruiser with Rylai Liandry Cosmic the only viable AP bruiser items.
Allow me to clarify:
When she uses passive on champions, she exorcises a spirit from them, which follows her and heals her for a short duration.
The more spirits, the more healing and movement speed she gains.
Please note the Corki midscope is still in active development and you’ll see changes hit PBE frequently. We are still working to ensure he’s a viable bot laner with a niche in the roster, while using the new item adjustments similar to other caster marksmen.
Cut Down my beloved, what is happening to you
It's similar tuning to Coup De Grace but applies at full HP. This means that it's more likely to trigger in a variety of places, whether that is lane poke, burst from high HP (AOE Mages, Karthus, GP), and siege poke (Xerath, Zoe). If we don't consider Coup De Grace weak, then this likely shouldn't be either.
That's my analysis at least, but we have time to tune it if this ends up untrue.
hopefully with double the players (and double the bans) we won’t face as many degenerate duos like leona/kassadin/singed/alistar/tryndamere + yuumi avoiding you until the zone kills you. stuff like that ruined the game mode for me
We intend to address stalling as well with this version.
We typically just allow Sylas to be OP with new spells and don’t stop designing because of him. It would be really lame for 1 designer to ship a champ that restricts every designer after them.
As for the Samira Sylas thing, my understanding is that Sylas does not get Samira passive, which prevents him from casting R. This is definitely not ideal from the player perspective, but would require us to either move passive logic into R (which means Viego can’t stack it) or special case Sylas, which may be more cost than value.
I’ll make a note for next week to see how difficult it is to just let him ult without condition with Samira R, and whether that’s something we’d want.
Was there ever an abillity you thought "It's perfect on the champion we want to make but would be too broken (as in wouldn't function properly or would be way to powerfull) on Sylas". Did releasing him or any other champions made you ever go back on something just because it would be too good/bad on them.
Also Ps. Please explain why is Samira ult still disfunctional on Sylas. He can't gain an S rank to use it, nor it has any passive effect on him. If he ever steals Samira ult he is forced to wait untill it expires (thankfully it does). It caught me off guard once in Aram where i thought imma steal 'Inferno Trigger', go in and deal some AoE dmg but ended up Inting and having to wait like 3 fights just to be able to ult again.
At least it was broken like 2 patches ago when i played it, didn't check since
We typically just allow Sylas to be OP with new spells and don’t stop designing because of him. It would be really lame for 1 designer to ship a champ that restricts every designer after them.
As for the Samira Sylas thing, my understanding is that Sylas does not get Samira passive, which prevents him from casting R. This is definitely not ideal from the player perspective, but would require us to either move passive logic into R (which means Viego can’t stack it) or special case Sylas, which may be more cost than value.
i am SO curious to know what the hell caused that viego-zyra bug lol, I'm sure everything was very funny until someone had to fix it
just as a question, when testing new champions is it still expected to test them with viego, sylas, renata etc. or is it just expected to work out of the box?
This was all a bit before I started learning to read/write champion code myself, but my understanding of the cause was:
Most champions had spells/passives/etc that only had to check for “themselves” to trigger logic. So when it was Viego running their logic instead, it would not know what to do.
So in Zyras case, it would spawn a plant, then check “Zyras” passive cooldown before sending another one. Because there was no “Zyra” passive to check, it would just fire off another plant, and repeat until Viego left her body or until some other bug stopped it.
As for the final question, Viego/Sylas/Renata etc all caused us to have new “standards” for how to properly script to not run into the common bugs with them. So new champs should follow these standards and just work, but regardless, our QA teams would test to make sure it works anyway.
You are correct in that Viego and Sylas were both nightmares. Once we “locked” the general mechanics of the ult/kit stealing, we had to play test with the (very slowly growing) list of champions that wouldn’t break the game when interacting. This meant a LOT of playing simple stuff like Jinx until we slowly bug fixed every single interaction.
Did mean some funny moments when a champ labeled “functional but probably bugged somehow” in our champion tracker was played and would break the game somehow. For example, Viego possessing Zyra spawned about 6 thousand plants all around the map in around 5 seconds due to a bug with her passive.
Seeing how that development went, it’s a miracle we untangled all the spaghetti to where they function reasonably as expected on live now.
Finally some good f*cking discussion
Thanks I'll pass this along today
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