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Obviously not my intent to upset anyone, just saw a good opportunity for a mean girls joke...

Whether or not I personally agree with his feedback, his post sparked some Olympian discussion and we are certainly still open to adjusting Loki, likely by continuing to move him more toward a jungler without breaking our goals of the rework.

Seems like the rework has been very successful by most metrics, and we do not plan on reverting him (which was my point of the joke) but that also doesnt mean hes "perfect" yet either.

Its going to take time though, we arent going to rush Loki adjustments until we see more data especially once the new S8 map launches.

Yeah, that was the point. I wanted to make it clear what it means for SMITE when we turn the healing knob up across the game.

Taken to its extreme, imagine a god that can ONLY heal. That god existing in that match would have to significantly reduce the kills to be considered even remotely effective.

My major point was to the original poster. He was pushing for healing to be its own identity supported with a slew of items. This turns the the knob up across the game by default. It must result in less kills; there is no other possible outcome to that proposal.

I think there are players who would 100% prefer that type of game. But we have to decide if that is the type of game most players would prefer and we have some historical evidence and we have made choices from the beginning of SMITE that tend to push the game in a different direction. The direction of SMITE has also changed over time as the design team refines and adapts our goals based on player feedba...

We have a few different approaches to balance. In general Warrior healers were not seen as effective and more specifically Guan Yu was not seen as effective. It did not matter that Guan Yu was statistically performing; he was often placed as a very low priority pick across the board.

Ra was in a similar spot until recently, seen as a mid to low tier mage at best. It did not matter that he statistically does well.

We have seen this year that focusing on the perceived strength of the character and how it feels to fight as them and against them in the context of a match is much better than pointing at our spreadsheets and going "We are right, sorry guys".

Gods having healing in their kit is contextual. Healing itself isn't bad; my argument is too much healing is bad. Tsukuyomi's healing is somewhat limited in that he won't find much to Basic Attack for long enough to heal. Set MUST be fighting a god to heal and Horus' heal has very low scaling making it larg...

Stop trying to make split push and instant burst Loki happen. Its not going to happen.

I should clarify burst a bit. In general what I mean is that when players dump their kits into each other, someone dies. Since they have to dump multiple abilities even burst comes out over a few seconds. MOBAs should have a higher time to kill than say a game like Counterstrike by default.

When things get TOO bursty (see old Loki, when you feed a He Bo, etc.) it can become frustrating as you often feel like you cannot play a fight.

Some characters will push for faster responses (if you hear Kuku ult you better Aegis) while others will allow for slower fights but the detrimental slowness is when gods can dive each other, dump 1 to 2 rounds of their full kit, and nobody has died yet. Even if it feels fun to someone who enjoys those types of fights it can be difficult to even end a game in that scenario.

Burst does have a distinct disadvantage as if you aren't attuned to reacting to it (new player as you mentioned) you are more susceptible to what feels like...

I touched on that a little bit; the per fight feeling of your healing can wildly vary from moment to moment. It isn't even about people knowing if anti-heal exists as Diamond+ Healers have a clear advantage. Ff those players cannot recognize when to buy Anti-heal and apply it regularly then basically no-one can (or healers are not shut out entirely but can feel that way).

Thanks, Pon! Nicely said!

I'm afk for a bit with the little guy, and Pon probably said it better than i ever could anyway.

Happy to see the community starting such deep discussions! And we have already been thinking/working on this topic already - i love when design + community align.

We will discuss more with olympians and pros and ill be back in this thread later if needed.

There are a lot of different ways to adjust healers, and we will be clear with our goals and our processes when we present anything on this to you all in the form of patch notes.

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We have spent a lot of time over the years discussing healers, their role in SMITE, and how best to support them. I think you have done a good job outlining some of the variance caused by healers and an approach to resolve that; but I want to provide some more context of our opinions so you can see why we are where we are with healers.

Lotus Crown was an attempt for a more healer focused item. This item when released was incredibly potent creating what you described at the end as a problem state. You could largely flex this as a one off and make your heals provide super utility while still building full damage. There are likely healthier ways to do this but healing has some core truths that we also try to be careful of. These are simply what must occur when healing is strong.

When healing is too strong players die less. When healing is too strong combat can feel less meaningful.

We often bounce between a Tank Meta and a Burst Meta. While somewhere in betwe...

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