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PhreakRiot

PhreakRiot



21 Jan

Phreak talking about balancing the wind-bros (and also taking shots at Reddit)

Comment

Originally posted by DoorHingesKill

they go vs other players who don't know how to play against them thus they get an easier life inflating their win rate

This shouldn't matter. If the entire population is bad at playing against champion X, which leads to champion X winning 55% of their games, then the result of that is that champion X is winning a disproportional number of games and is, on average, overperforming to an unacceptable degree.

Riot doesn't balance around what the game "should be" like, cause that'd just be a guessing game, they balance based on what's actually going on in the game, and in this case, that'd be champion X being unreasonably strong.

I've once seen a comparable argument about Cho'Gath's 54% win rate, which basically went "Cho is really old and very simple, so it's to be expected Cho players have an advantage over more difficult/newer champions whose players haven't yet been able to master them like Cho players mastered their champion."

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Great post.

This is the argument everyone needs to read when they go "XD champ easy."

If Riot wanted to balance champions so that they were all balanced on 10 games of experience, Yasuo would probably stabilize around 60% win rate. Turns out Yasuo players are just better than other players but the game's on hard mode because he's balanced around them being so good at him.

Phreak talking about balancing the wind-bros (and also taking shots at Reddit)

Comment

Originally posted by Aboko_Official

He is a dick online.

I've met him in real life.

I said, "Phreak!!!" While walking outside of Madison square garden during the NA finals one season.

Mind you all I said was his name and waived. And I was with like 4 people. I didn't ask for a picture, autograph, nothing.

And then his response, "dude can you keep it down I don't want a million people coming over here."

He is a dick in real life too.

Made sure to tell him in person and it felt awesome.

Editing to a different reply I gave:

If this happened, then I truly apologize for being curt with you. I have no memory of blowing anyone off at an event ever. At most I’ve said I had to go when hailed because sometimes I’ve got a schedule to keep or somewhere to be.

I remember walking around NYC and having packs of people accumulate when I stopped for photos or autographs and I’m cool with that, so I don’t know why it’d be any different this time: I tend to stop for photos or autographs.

Either way, again, I’m sorry if I came across rude to you back then. I truly don’t believe I’ve had such an interaction but I’m human so maybe I did and I forgot.

Phreak talking about balancing the wind-bros (and also taking shots at Reddit)

Comment

Originally posted by RenegadeExiled

Hecarim was getting 2 dashes (E engage, R to follow), and now he lost that second proc because Akali was abusing yet another thing she shouldn't. "basically zero change" is such a stupid take

So I see your point but keep in mind a couple things:

You still get credit for the first ~150 units of the dash. Hecarim E doesn’t go a ton farther than that, which means “basically zero” still applies when we’re taking the entire nerf to be like 10 chem energy.

All of the nerds combined (4x as many dashes on Akali, no juice on minion auto) amounted to 1% off of Chemtech Akali. So again, basically zero change for Hecarim.


20 Jan

Phreak talking about balancing the wind-bros (and also taking shots at Reddit)

Comment

Originally posted by flUddOS

You can say it's a "proactive approach" but the reality is they have a limited amount of developers working within a limited time frame. Yasuo/Yone being temperamental balancing acts is a time sink.

For example, do you honestly think high mobility tanks are going to get proactive compensation buffs for the Akali-driven chemtank nerfs anytime soon?

If Rammus's win rate plummets 2% and lands somewhere garbage, then yeah. But Hecarim isn't getting three dashes off in a team fight (neither is Rammus) and that thing is charged to full when he starts combat anyway. So I'd expect there to be basically zero change for anyone.

Phreak talking about balancing the wind-bros (and also taking shots at Reddit)

Comment

Originally posted by Jiaozy

People have been complaining about Riot's slow speed at buffing champions that get demolished by itemization nerfs, except in a few selected cases.

Popular champions will NEVER stay undertuned for longer than 2 patches, just look at Darius: he lost the dash on Stridebreaker so he got compensation buffs after 2 patches, but most other juggernauts that lost that dash didn't.

Yone and Yasuo losing a few points of win rate, because of Shieldbow nerfs? Patched instantly.

Amumu gets nerfed into the ground because the items were broken while ALSO nerfing his core build later, leaving him in the gutter? Shit out of luck.

The Yasuo/Yone/Darius approach is the right one, but people are pissed because it's done only on popular champions and it's not the standard approach.

Most Juggernauts were fine after Stridebreaker changes. They could just go Goredrinker or Divine Sunderer.

Nocturne? Still great. Actually buffed by the changes. Gnar? Just go Sunderer. Garen? Still very strong for most players. Lee Sin? Still great with Goredrinker. The list kinda just goes on.

Like I'd see your point if the actual facts backed it up but most old Stridebreaker users just found new homes.

Phreak talking about balancing the wind-bros (and also taking shots at Reddit)

Comment

Originally posted by PickCollins0330

The approach they are taking to Yasuo+Yone is the correct approach to take to champion balance. The issue is they are applying it disproportionately. Yasuo and Yone get compensation buffs after Shieldbow nerfs but it took some very heavy pushback to get them to buff Samira as well (despite being objectively worse than the wind Bros and hurt more by the Shieldbow nerf) and Ashe, Aphelios, and other ADCs who build Shieldbow who are suffering from this change are basically just shuffled away and told to f**k off.

So either they need to start compensation buffing every champion much sooner or they need to stop compensation buffing so quick for every champion. It’s an incredibly unfair setup and that’s exactly what adds fuel to the hatred for Yasuo and Yone.

Phreaks argument is deceptive as f**k and he knows that. The complaints are not grounded in “they’re op”. It’s “theyre kit is abysmally frustrating to play against”. Yet Phreak will dig his heels in to misrepresent...

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I ty pretty hard to never begrudge players their frustrations. I don't think Zed is very strong but I accept that players don't like playing against him. And he's like 48% win rate for most players, so whatever.

But if the argument is "these champions don't deserve buffs" that's fraudulent.


16 Jan

Counter Logic Gaming vs. Immortals / LCS 2022 Lock In - Group Stage / Post-Match Discussion

Comment

Originally posted by windowplanters

He also said Ziggs doesn't scale.

Yo do people really not understand that scaling is relative?

Champions have a power level. Either a champion is broken OP and they're the best at every stage of the game (or dogsh*t) or they have relative strengths and weaknesses. This should not be a controversial statement. Either a champion is imbalanced or balanced.

Ziggs is inarguably amazing early game. No one can match his wave clear. No one can 1v2 like him. No one takes turret plates like him. No one gets first turret like him. By any reasonable measure, Ziggs is among the best, if not the single best, early game bot laner in the game.

Now, again, I ask you: Is Ziggs broken OP or does he have strengths and weaknesses?

If your argument is "Ziggs is just the best champion at all stages in the game" then I guess that can be your opinion. Otherwise, if we live in a reality where Ziggs is the best early game champion in the game but also relatively balanced overall (we do) then his weaknesses MUS...

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Counter Logic Gaming vs. Immortals / LCS 2022 Lock In - Group Stage / Post-Match Discussion

Comment

Originally posted by Pretender98

bruh phreak was saying that gp is not a scalling champ...

Let's be really clear about terminology here:

A scaling pick is a champion (like Kayle, who everyone agrees is a scaling pick) who is weak in the early game but comes online later.

Gangplank is a lane bully with incredibly early access to supporting cross-map plays (by 6 minutes in a 30+ minute game, seems pretty early tbh). He also has a reasonable mid and late game. In what way does that make him a champion who is weak early but comes online later? He can crossmap you before Herald even spawns. Pre-herald is DEFINITELY still early game.

Just because your lategame exists does not mean you're a scaling pick. Some champions (like Gangplank) are relatively flat throughout the game.

So to measure scaling, we're not saying "has power in the mid game or late game" we are measuring the difference between their early game and late game. We are, for example, measuring level 11 power vs level 16 power. Kassadin? Kayle? Scaling picks. Get them to 16. Get them ...

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Counter Logic Gaming vs. Immortals / LCS 2022 Lock In - Group Stage / Post-Match Discussion

Comment

Originally posted by Ap_Sona_Bot

CLG HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT PROACTIVE FOR THE PAST 25 MINUTES

f*ck YEAH LET'S GO CLG!!!!!

How people are still sleeping on drakes? 87.7% wr on weakest soul

Comment

Originally posted by IronHardstuck

Oh, never expected to see Preak of all people. If you have that kind of data, obviously, your word is final, honestly if I could dive deep into kind of statistics you have I would be happy but I don't have that kind of access.

I think I used wrong words and what I meant by my post is lost. I will be collecting data and try to formulate a much more "cleaner" version.

It's more that it's pretty much impossible to disentangle soul vs. already-winning without doing more work.

You can get somewhat close. For example, oracleselixir.com has a winrate calculator that just crunches through pro data and tries to solve for gold leads vs. dragon leads vs. souls, etc.

You can't measure just dragon soul by itself, but you can look at what % of games are won with Dragon Soul and compare that with gold leads and get there by crunching through more variables.

Cloud9 Academy update (ft. LS)

Comment

Originally posted by Bargainking77

(Sorry late reply) I think 1v1 matchup data can certainly be useful to answer those types of "champion vs. champion" questions. I think the answers to those questions definitely provides some utility. I imagine pros are usually correct predictors of that already, but there are almost certainly cases where the common sentiment is incorrect and those stats can help expose that.
Though the question I really am curious about is "If I pick this champion in the current draft state, how will it impact the probability that we win?" and that's probably not a realistically answerable question. However I'd be interested if it would be possible to answer questions like "If I'm running a poke comp, what is the best top laner to include?". I can imagine a model that categorizes the team comp based on champions, and then compares win-rates based on top laner. I don't think that would be easy (feasible, maybe?), but that kind of information on the synergy between champions could be really int...

You can't perfectly test comp vs. comp because there are just too many permutations, but you can just pretend each interaction is just a pairwise "AD+Supp" / "AD+Mid" / "AD+Jungle" and so on. You'll end up getting pretty close I think.

And there's no way a player's intuition is going to do better than a robot that crunches through each matchup and gives you a 10-champion short list of good picks for current comps.


15 Jan

How people are still sleeping on drakes? 87.7% wr on weakest soul

Comment

Originally posted by TheScyphozoa

I said what I meant. When a team WINS THE GAME after taking 2 dragons, it's usually 2 of the same dragon, which means they did not take any early dragons. When a team WINS THE GAME after taking 3 dragons, it's usually 3 different dragons, which means they DID take early dragons.

I assume it’s just measuring fairly different things. Measuring exact count is always odd. How does a team get exactly two dragons? They get early ones then get stomped or they ignore and then get them late. How does a team get exactly 3 and not 4? You get them early and get stomped or ignore the first one(s).

In either case, taking dragons (2), 3, and 4 line up with being the stronger team. After all, early game leads are nice, but if they disappear you’re no longer winning and thus get no more dragons. If you’re behind early but get ahead late, then you win and get later dragons.

Edit:

I imagine getting the first two dragons has a high win rate. But usually if you get the first two dragons and keep winning you go beyond 2 and get 4. It’s hard to be the winning team and stop at 1-2 or 1-2-3 because you expect to get more.

How people are still sleeping on drakes? 87.7% wr on weakest soul

Comment

Originally posted by TheScyphozoa

Something I don’t understand. When the winning team has 2 dragons, it’s usually the same 2 dragons, but when the winning team has 3 dragons, it’s usually 3 different dragons. The former makes sense, because if you lose 1 and 2 then take 3 and 4, you’re making a comeback. But why do teams taking 1, 2, and 3 win more than teams taking 3, 4, and 5? Does the 3rd dragon represent a time in the game where comebacks become much less likely?

You said winning for both first sentence so you’ll need to edit that before I can give you a straight answer.

How people are still sleeping on drakes? 87.7% wr on weakest soul

Comment

Originally posted by LPSlash

Yes it is. Example: you just won the game after getting soul. You are already a player that believes soul is game winning. You think to yourself wow we won that game because we got soul.

Confirmation bias definition: the tendency to process information by looking for information that is consistent with ones existing beliefs. So in my example the player already believes soul is game winning. So when they win after getting soul they are engaging in confirmation bias if they then say to someone “I won because of soul”.

My bad for assuming you were intelligent, Phreak.

Confirmation bias is the implicit subconscious bias of giving more weight to evidence that supports your claim and diminishing evidence that goes against it.

Using dragon soul winrate as a measure of power is a problem of mistaking correlation for causation, not of confirmation bias. Dragon soul is correlated with winning because winning teams easily claim dragons, not because those dragons caused the team to win.

I guess one could make the case the confirmation bias is influencing the tendency to view the correlation in a certain way but that’s not the primary thing going on here.

How people are still sleeping on drakes? 87.7% wr on weakest soul

Comment

Originally posted by LPSlash

Phreak shutting down nonsensical confirmation bias analysis real quick.

That’s not what confirmation bias is.


14 Jan

How people are still sleeping on drakes? 87.7% wr on weakest soul

Comment

The difficulty with these measures is that they’re heavily correlated with the winning team grabbing them in that the team that’s already winning grabs the dragons.

That said, dragon souls are good.

Team Vitality vs. MAD Lions / LEC 2022 Spring - Week 1 / Post-Match Discussion

Comment

Originally posted by xXDaNXx

Perkz is washed

Alphari useless out of lane

Carzzy was the problem

All Selfmade's fault

Alphari has been useless out of lane his whole career.

The Dive | The LCS is Free2Play vs. The Whales

Comment

Originally posted by ObiBraum_Kenobi

Come on now Phreak, watch the tape. 37:20. You literally called them "his Korean import friends", and then specified the entire project as encompassing what you were referring to. I'm not projecting anything. I'm taking your exact words, and questioning why you're saying them. I'm not disagreeing with your points about the difficulties faced by mixed language teams. I'm questioning your reference to his relationship with them as if it is any relevance to the conversation at hand, being the quality of their imports and if they are the next Seraphs.

Which, once again, it needs to be pointed out that he has stated in multiple different settings that he had no friendship to Berserker or Winsome prior to their being picked up by the team.

Edit: Nice edit there Phreak. We both know you originally said "I didn't call them LS' friends", not that the import friends line isn't the main point. 10/10 deflection, goal posts successfully moved.

Yeah I edited because I didn’t remember calling them his friends but went back and watched the tape. If your main takeaway is that I used the word “friends” in a 300-word response I don’t know what to tell you; your listening comprehension isn’t the greatest.

The Dive | The LCS is Free2Play vs. The Whales

Comment

Originally posted by ObiBraum_Kenobi

Phreak's rant about the C9 roster being LS' friends while talking about C9 potentially failing just felt like a massive hate boner. Yes, C9 very much could fail for a multitude of issues. With that said, aside from Fudge, none of the projected five C9 starters (potentially six if you want to include Isles), are LS' friends. The accusation of it failing because LS' friends aren't good is nonsensical. Are the coaching staff and Malice his friends? Yeah, sure. But they aren't there with the intent of being played. They're there with the intent of being high level practice partners.

Reality is Berkserker is a mechanically talented adc who is top 50 in Korean challenger while also having amateur experience playing for T1, a team who has historically been extremely successful at scouting talent on the Korean ladder. He wasn't friends with LS prior to signing, he was just a talented prospect that they wanted to get a hold of young. Is there a risk he doesn't pan out? Sure. Is he a...

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The main point is not the "import friends" line. You're projecting really hard here.

I made the same point about both TSM and C9: Mixed-language teams are tough. C9 just also has the extra point about having a very outspoken coach with a proclaimed playstyle.


13 Jan

The Dive | The LCS is Free2Play vs. The Whales

Comment

Originally posted by chippyrim

I just wanna say to phreaks point about bjerg not playing much soloq on his main account. bjerg has said he played on a smurf account all year and double also said he was challenger because they played vs each other and double didnt know it was bjerg (this is what double said)

though another point, apperently bjerg was playing mainly jungle on his secret account

also it was stated on one of the tsm legends episode's, when bjerg was upset with the team because he had played more soloq than most of the team for the last few weeks

Thanks, this makes sense. I tried to include the caveat several times that he may have just played on a smurf.