PhreakRiot

To be clear about something, Riot cannot react to pro play the immediate patch before. Not only is there a minimum 8 day lag between a patch hitting live and pros playing on it, the number is greater than that because, let's be clear, a single bo3 between T1 and NS is not a good source of data.

So Riot is necessarily one full skipped patch behind pro play. There just isn't another way to do it. 11.7 can look at 11.5 pro play and 11.8 can look at 11.6 pro play... just not all of it, since those are playoff patches, but you at least get enough of a look.

Hecarim's most recent pro-facing nerf was 11.6, yes, meaning 11.8 could have had more pro-reactive nerfs. However, it's reasonable to conclude a large reason for his prevalence is from Chemtank, which also got nerfed in 11.7. For further reference, his win rates on non-Chemtank are pretty reasonable, leading to a fair conclusion that a Chemtank-focused nerf would be fair, combined with a lighter nerf on his E.

...

How exactly do you find nerfs to Phoenix Udyr's clear speed and Chemtank's movement speed "indirect"?

And those champions got nerfs every time they set off the solo queue flags. It's not like Riot was like, "Nah, let's just ignore the oracle data this time."

You don't really have to, though. Whether or not you're level 4, the team with lane priority is the one who's getting the crab. It's not unreasonable to do 5 camps and just take the other one instead.

And I can understand that, but let's be really specific about what happened:

Riot nerfed Udyr in the 11.5/6 playoff patch and Hecarim was only at 61% presence the last time Riot had a chance to react to pro play metrics for 11.6.

I really don't think Riot should get in the habit of roller coaster champion balance. It'll feel sh*tty for players and it'll feel sh*tty for pros just playing whack-a-mole with champion select.

"I think a third hit on Hecarim in 11.8 is warranted, but it's not like Riot didn't continually tap them down."

Literally in the post, bro.

FWIW, Hecarim and Udyr each received several nerfs in addition to Chemtank being nerfed.

I know Reddit likes to complain about "triple nerfing" something, but sometimes that doesn't do enough.

Hecarim's nerfs weren't in for the LCS playoffs, though he was still #1 pick/ban in the 11.6 playoffs regions.

Hecarim's second nerf, Udyr's third nerf, and Chemtank's nerf were all in 11.7, which were all put in after Riot reacted to the 11.5 second round of Udyr nerfs not lowering his priority enough.

I think a third hit on Hecarim in 11.8 is warranted, but it's not like Riot didn't continually tap them down.

Plus, let's not act like pros are good at reacting to changes on time. You say "months ago" as though people whose literal job it is to pick the strongest champions didn't fail to identify them.

11.2 had Chemtank's big buffs where it got much cheaper. Hecarim's presence: 28%. Udyr's was 74%

11.3, where Udyr was specifically nerfe...

I think item diversity is very good.

Sure the Chemtank junglers are running over everything. That’s obviously an issue. But I just saw Renekton build three different first item builds in a single bo5 this weekend and then the next day he swapped his mythic midgame as the game state evolved.

Lillia and Nidalee regularly build three different mythics. Supportive tops have 2-3. And that’s not counting the 2nd and 3rd options. Marksmen have a ton of choices across ER, Collector, Hurricane, PD, Rageknife, and LDR third. There are further edge cases and that’s not counting the 5-6 different first items that get chosen.

Mages are a little lean except that they choose among 4-5 of the 6 mythics every game. Seraphs is a sometimes 2nd. Void is OP though.

People think their fighter options are limited. They are not. Gangplank regularly uses like four different builds though.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Context ignored. You're fired.

🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃

I can confirm that this is a deepfake.

This is the only time it’s ok to run with scissors, kids.

ALSO GOT NO LOSSES IN CLASH YESTERDAY SO ILL TAKE IT

Fudge has played better than Ssumday for the majority of Spring. This is the new normal for now.

Not yet. I was busy winning Clash.

Below average you say?

Like, say... 6th place?

I assure you as an FBI fan I'd be just as excited for any good plays 100 Thieves made.

They just had so few.

Yes.

I realized the opportunity existed midway through the word "stride."

TBH I haven't seen any of the designers' human bodies in over a year. Who knows when the computer superintelligence got to them?