PhreakRiot

I know at least one designer was looking into him. I forget what happened and why there aren't any changes at this time.

FWIW people are building him wrong. Not that he's outstanding or anything, but Divine Sunderer is incorrect. Trinity Force and Galeforce both seem to heavily outperform it.

Thanks! <3

Stellar recounting, thanks for the rundown! I had forgotten about the Zed comic and gave it a read once I got to that part in the post. Poor misunderstood Govos.

I'm guessing this is because they've been going after his items.

AP Malphite, for example, seems to be pretty balanced. His most purchased AP mythic in Luden's is ~51% win rate. Considering the last three patches chain-nerfed tank items, it makes sense that they tried to hold off on nerfing him specifically while hitting items that needed it.

That said, Malphite is still broken and should be nerfed.

Eh, there's more you could do here.

Counter-jungling a camp does two things:

1. I get Gold/XP
2. You don't get Gold/XP

Making up numbers, if Raptors is "+200/-200" and Krugs is "+100/-400" then taking Krugs is still potentially the better choice. There are other considerations like how likely is the enemy jungler going to come back to this camp before it respawns (as you mentioned) and smaller points like how much time would they have spent on the camp itself. Raptors may well be the right call, but denying the full value of Krugs to an opposing jungler is relevant, too.

There's one thing missing from this analysis:

How good is Krugs compared to each of the three other camps?

This is a good analysis for "Krugs are better on not-Ivern if they can take them efficiently." But there is still relevant information missing like, "no, really, it's half as much as Wolves, don't even bother." Because your teammates can't always hit that camp. (And then there's also a minor point in that Ivern, like all junglers, gets more XP from camps than non-junglers. Not enough to make up the difference, but still relevant data.)

Underrated comment

Yeah this design is so much better. Shifting the power to +AD and removing the silly damage-type constraint is better all around.

Yeah they all have to be re-done by hand. So it's slow-going.

To be fair, that's with Shift being held (the "more info" button).

All the scaling and such are collapsed into one final number any time you first glance at it.

Don't worry there's also people complaining about Twitch's low aggregate win rate when he's being brought down by his atrociously bad support performance.

Wow a popular balanced assassin? What is the world coming to?

I can't wait for the "Reddit Knows Balance" video on this one.

Or I'm wrong. But this is a gigantic buff.

Chiming in because I don't think I was incredibly clear and succinct in the conclusion: True damage gains on %health damage against tanks because armor increases more sharply than health does. The absolute power levels of BotRK/Kaken slayer aren't incredibly important, only the relative gains. And in general, those gains were greater against tanks than they were against non-tanks.

Some champions, like Yasuo, tended to buy purely +Armor (Death's Dance, GA), and others like Darius, would buy purely +Health. Those will also change your item goals.

Then maybe the champion who is designed to kill tanks should itemize in a way that kills tanks and not the ones that provide a shield and the one that gives up-front burst to kill a squishy.

It's almost like ADCs actually got choice in what items to build and then complain when they do it wrong.

Sure, but I'm not sure you can ever call LDR second the correct build overall.

I think PD second is pretty terrible, especially on a high-AS champion like Jinx, but regardless this is mostly a Graves thing.

Graves also gets an absurd amount of bonus armor through Quickdraw.

His armor was 204 at the start of the fight and 240 at the end with just Plated Steelcaps (Ninja Tabi). For reference, he's getting 108, then 144 armor through Quickdraw at 6, then 8 stacks.

So to be clear, this is much more a case of, "Wow, late-fight Graves is nigh-invincible to physical damage."

I have fun in Bot Lane. I frequent Reddit.

ADC mains on this subreddit are unbearable.

This was certainly a moment.

As always, please find it in your hearts to deliver compliments without delivering insults to other people in the same breath.

My mistake, it's actually 1-17. This is from the lolesports Twitter predictions, where there's one for each game played. His one NA nod was TL > Machi the first time.