phroxz0n

https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1771644991120789627

yeah I talked about it here

I've seen 20 or so threads like this and I've yet to see a single person that plays normals before playing ranked who has been incorrectly placed after the change to fix those seeding issues (~early feb). We've also done some comprehensive data analysis on this.

Having said that, getting ARAM and bot games players in their first ranked games is a priority for us (it's currently not considered in seeding due to how different those modes are). It is not trivial to fix this for some reasons that aren't particularly relevant, so will take us some time, but we agree it's a problem.

The unfortunate reality is that there are about as many people who are alt accounts that are trying to ego boost themselves as there are new players that go through this ARAM/bot flow, which is why we haven't changed the initial starting injection point. We could move it, but we'd just be trading one issue for another (eg. why is there a 90% winrate player stomping their way through my silve...

Can you dm me some accounts?

We believe we've fixed it forward facing, but we can't fix them retroactively :( We've investigated, it's just not realistically possible at this time

any warwick enjoyers

Idk we already have enough AP champions who are hehe xD one shot machines. Don't feel particularly enthused by galio being another one of those, given his theme, etc.

My suspicion is the yuumi account didn't play any normal games, so they did not have any seeding info on the account for when they entered ranked.

The other account seems to be placed a lot more honestly, though probably still too high overall.

I'm also suspicious of some shenaniganry going on, given the first player played 100 games of yuumi and 50 games of veigar in normals, then suddenly plays 9 games of Warwick in ranked.

This isn't ideal and we're working on ways to better account for these cases. (from accounts being botted and sold to inappropriate seeding, etc.)

Galio is just weak right now. I don't think he lacks identity, he has a pretty clear one, he is meant to be as close to being a " defender/enabler from midlane" with an ability to shrug off some AP damage as is reasonably supportable by gameplay.

Preventing your team from getting run over on the entire map is obviously pretty broken, so his tools to prevent that need some clear weaknesses, eg. He doesn't turbo stomp lane to trade off for his ~semi global presence. He has a lot of CC capabilities, which also need to be compensated somewhere.

When you have galio on your team, you are meant to feel more supported/comfortable, because he could come save you/support you if you need it.

When galio was unconditionally strong (eg. think back to faker galio), it was because he could get prio in every lane and was not movable in any matchup, while having high pressure/uptime on sides.

This state wasn't particularly sustainable, so we had to give him a laning...

Things could always be improved for sure, but the Engineers have done some amazing improvements over the past few years. As far as Gameplay goes, there's not too much that we (Designers) are not able to do as far as prototyping and implementing goes.

eg. Consider the Season Start changes we just did. Just a few years ago, would not be remotely possible. In this Season we changed basically every map geo, many many items, all the objective flows, spawning rules, dynamic map terrain changing through the game, etc.

I guess no matter how you slice it, having hundreds of people work together seamlessly is pretty difficult. It's hard to get 2 people to agree on something, let alone hundreds.

Other operating models are having one person call all the shots (which can make things extremely fast, but lose that diversity of thought).

On Gameplay, we like to give the teams as much autonomy as possible to do the things they want to do/believe are good for the game, while trying to strike a balance of removing roadblocks, providing vision and making sure we're ambitious enough for the future, overseeing quality to make sure changes to the game are going to move it forward.

Fun challenge that makes everyday exciting.

It's something we've talked about and think is generally valuable. It's a lot more complex than it seems on paper to implement though...

It's on our list of things to fix, yeah. But this type of case is not ideal :( We don't get seeding information from bot or ARAM games

Are you playing normals or ranked?

If you dm me the ID, I can take a look

We're as upset about it as y'all are and we've been talking about these types of cases internally.

While we've fixed erroneous seeding of people who played normal games moving forward, we can't retroactively fix the cases of people who played their first games a month ago before we pushed the fix. (we looked into it, but it can't be done at the scale or speed that we need it to 😭😭)

The second set of cases look like bots 😭. If a player plays just aram or bot games they don't go through our seeding pipeline. This is also not something we're happy with and are looking at improving, but for these cases in particular, hoping that vanguard removes them from the ecosystem entirely.

Again, apologize for the experience, we're working on things and split 2 reset should hopefully put the erroneously placed players back in their right places.

yeah :( You seem to have played your first game before we pushed the fix to the incorrect seeding issue. Really sorry, but the only way to go about this is to play your way down

yes, but it's one of those roles that's really hard to estimate

It's funny cause I was literally talking with someone the other day about how it's hard to estimate performance with 0-11 blitzcrank who could be having the game of their life. And then this thread came up 🙃

OK so I looked at your opgg, I think you're heavily underestimating your skill level!! You're not an iron player, you're doing pretty well in Gold/Plat games!!

That said, Gold/Plat in normals is probably not Gold/Plat in ranked, so we'd already been thinking about adjustments to move people even further down if we see that.

And it's not particularly effective. Bad actors use their grandma's id, neighbors, etc.

There's some accounts we intentionally want to put there though, like smurfs, etc. But agreed with the general sentiment. We are on a continuous battle to try and do a better job with seeding

Ty

Thanks for the report on this. Will do some triage... Can you dm me the acc name of your friend? You should have been placed similar to them if things are working properly...