League of Legends Dev Tracker

Originally posted by deathspate

I think his question is more to the point of "Are all landmasses shown on the map all that are on Runeterra or are there possibly others not shown yet?". So not really like hidden regions or factions like how Ixtal was there the whole time on the map but we didn't have any place marking it, but more like if there are more unknown continents out there.

Originally posted by Oshipee

Surface area. I just assumed there were more PoIs.

Originally posted by Kaevr

What are some characters/lore bits that you really felt that needed some thought on them?

Originally posted by Merkiv

Personally I both agree and disagree with you. No team ever goes into the game thinking "alright, we're gonna concede 1st, 2nd, 3rd baron", and the fact that G2 did, was the result (like you said) of either their mistakes that they shouldn't have made, or good play from SKT.

However, while you're saying that G2 was good at thinking on their feet, and was having good responses to what SKT was doing, you're phrasing it in a way, that makes it seem like G2 players were forced to make something happen so they don't concede the map completely, and the reason for it working out was purely good execution - and that's where I disagree.

We've all seen what happens between 15-25 minutes when G2 don't do those mistakes - they snowball out of control and close out games extremely fast and efficiently. The reason for that aren't godly mechanics from all of their players (that's not to say they don't have amazing mechanics, because they do), but the way they prepare the map befor...

Read more

Originally posted by LtSpaceDucK

"But then we come back to the original discussion of "I do not believe SKT picked for early game." I also think in every game, G2 had early game options that they failed to utilize. The closest the came was in game 3 when Jankos not only successfully played through bot but also saved his top side. If you now look at my arguments with that in mind, does this make more sense?"

They picked renekton top in three out of four games also taking into consideration the jungle picks SKT picked to snowball through top that's clear meanwhile G2 never picked a champion that it's main focus was to smash the lane based on the lane matchup, SKT played way more for lane than G2.

Regarding the early game options they were there but if the fact that G2's draft works against them when it's claimed they outplayed SKT in the late game and teamfights the same can be said for SKT. In my opinion SKT had clear advantages in the early game, I remember Fnatic versus Koo Tigers season 5 or Grif...

Read more

Originally posted by Falconpunchu

Wait so who is better skt or g2? I thought you said skt were the better team.

Originally posted by furbar82

Let's take game 3 for example. Renekton, Rek'sai, Ryze, Kaisa, Leona vs Camille, Elise, Orianna, Xayah, Naut. I think we can both agree that Ryze and Kaisa should not be considered early game champions. However, against G2's comp, they probably get outscaled. Why? Well, diving onto a Xayah is hard for Renekton and Kaisa because of the Naut cc + Xayah ult. Orianna also provides mroe teamfight value than a Ryze does. Also, Camille's damage in the late game will be too strong for anyone on SKT to be able to 1v1.

SKT got a 2-0 Renekton top and did absolute 0 with it! They had a fed Ryze and Renekton in mid game and never got a proper split push set up. They f**ked up their respawn timings for second drake and gave G2 a free infernal drake when they were actually way stronger on the map. They got baron and then did absolute 0 with it by losing a fight they never should have lost.

SKT did tons of insane f**k ups in game 3, its actually b...

Read more

Originally posted by iTomes

I feel like that's only really true if SKT doesn't leverage the Renekton matchup though, which is by far the biggest example of an early vs. lategame disconnect in that specific game. If Camille and Renekton go remotely even then yes, G2 has a massive advantage as SKT can't really match the Camille anywhere on the map and just get outscaled in terms of their teamfighting. But that really shouldn't happen and is in fact the opposite of what was happening early. And if Camille doesn't get back into the game after her first disastrous three levels or something (which she really shouldn't have been able to do, and I mostly blame Clid for her being able to pull that comeback off since all he had to do was basically play river Rek'Sai top side and it didn't seem like he was doing that to me in the moment) SKT can just play sidelanes since a starved Camille won't be able to match Ryze, nobody will be able to match Renekton and all bot lane has to do is just not completely fall apart.

...

Read more

Originally posted by _Vastus_

This does clarify your stance a bit, but there is one last point I want to go over then. Does making less mistakes make you the better team? Or alternatively, is the strength of a team defined by how they deal with setbacks instead? You say that a lot of G2's more creative map trades were forced by their earlier mistakes.

But even if we assume that was always the case (which I do not think it is, it often simply came down to item spikes and timings that were better for SKT that they tried to fight around), does that creativity not make them the better team? They were able to take unfavorable situations and trade evenly or sometimes up despite being weaker in that stage of the game.

SKT on the other hand looked lost whenever something went wrong (e.g. when they botched their baron setup or when someone got caught), they had no backup plans or anything outside of their usual playbook. That difference in creativity, in being able to turn a negative situation into a p...

Read more

Originally posted by brother-trick

That's completely fine to have a different opinion.

To me its just funny how many of the analysts - and this started happening at MSI already when G2 won - suddenly are making arguments 'if A were true than G2 would not win'.

At MSI many said how it was the cheesy skirmish meta with Pyke and mages/bruisers bot and how G2 will fall off once meta normalizes and here we have G2 with Xayah as their best champ, winning through scaling teamfighting comps against SKT of all teams.

Originally posted by georgioz

I think it is not only about the number of mistakes by each team. But it is also about how the teams are able to capitalize on those mistakes SKT were simply not good in that area.

Also I am not sure that I even agree that counting mistakes is a good way of looking at what the better playing team is. There is a ton of historically dominant teams that were lackluster in many areas but really good in one area - like teamfighting.

How does one even evaluate legacy of such a team? Mistake counting is clearly bad way to go about it. Hell, we did not do it when SKT and other koreans were known for getting behind only to come back lategame by superior macro and teamfights.

Originally posted by furbar82

"I think SKT were overall pretty bad at using Baron."
"There was a huge window here where they could've really created a lot of pressure, but didn't."
"So yeah, I don't think their baron usage was good."
"they just outplayed SKT."
"but the good things that G2 did were WAY MORE impactful as they actually resulted in game wins."

=> "So what I'm saying is because the number of good plays from SKT was greater, I believe overall they played better league"

I understand that this may be confusing and my language could be better, but this is what I mean when I say these things.

Its not confusing its just horrible kind of logic. And a discussion that was never a thing in the history of leauge. If I am wrong name me all the series in the past were people discussed the better playing team losing the series.

I have no problem people discussing what G2 and what SKT did good and bad, but people trying to discuss whic...

Read more

Originally posted by henoriel

I agree that those are obvious "mistakes", however I think that Kobbe (and Jatt?) pointed out something that i'm not sure you really adressed (apologies if it's already in another of your answer).

This thing is that, those mistakes were punished by SKT, but how many times doing this serie did those risky plays went unpunished and gave G2 a free tower, a inhib , a kill or just free waves or farm?

I find it hard to criticise G2 for those mistakes (even though it's what you are trying to figure out as analyst in your reviews) because they gain so much out of those 60-40 plays and it means that even after a couple of those every early game, they are still only less than 2k behind SKT and permanently apply pressure.

I'm convinced that if they don't go for those risky plays they are nowhere near as succesful, it's their identity as a team (and that lead to them being stomped sometimes because they can't stop)

Originally posted by QuaintTerror

Most people like you, no one cares if you said one stupid thing. But this is a strange hill to die on imo.

Originally posted by LtSpaceDucK

"But as I said, I think they outscaled, that doesn't mean their early game is garbage. Every game, they had lanes that they could gain advantages through. Just because a comp outscales, doesn't mean it's only win condition is late game, it just means when you reach a certain point your champs are stronger than your opponents for whatever reason."

Agreed

"one could argue SKT had fewer ways to gain early game advantages yet they were able to find them. Therefore, using this series as data, I am making the assumption that if the roles were reversed, SKT are more likely to execute better."

In what instances did SKT have fewer ways to get early game advantages?

"So they had a strong top side, G2 also got Xayah, which is the strongest early game AD. They also had Ez + Galio, which was also a stronger bot side than yasuo + grag early on. So you can start to see how G2 would just trade pressure on one side of the map to the other, meaning SKT didn't just alw...

Read more

Originally posted by Emeraldaes

There's a lot of if's you're using here. And you're only doing it from one perspective. If the comps were reversed and G2 had SKT's gold lead, G2 would utterly have smashed them because they have shown, all year long, how well they play with baron and how fast their games end when they get it.

Looking at things from one perspective while ignoring all other aspects is honestly so triggering. Not to mention that drafting, and champion pools, are part of being a better team and playing better. The draft is part of the game.

The bias just because it's SKT is so insane.

Originally posted by Songbirdur

Two different linguists in the family? Christmas must be filled with useless trivia. Linguistic trivia the best trivia tho

edit: I can't spell

Originally posted by georgioz

To be frank I disagree with the claim that G2 made more mistakes even. I even watched LS/Nemesis cast of Game 3 specifically, which I think was pivotal for the series and made a comment about it. To sum up in few points:

• No team seems to have some inherent draft advantage. I think you even said on cast that game 3 and 4 SKT had draft advantage although I am not sure.
• G2 made two big mistakes. One was Wunder playing bad early game going 0:2. The second one was Wunder overextending and baiting Caps that resulted in baron at 23 minutes

Now look at some G2 good plays:

• Jankos was very proactive early game. He managed the kill bot and also singlehandedly salvaged Wunder's lane that also snowballed on pick on Faker mid.

• G2 smartly traded objectives, always keeping map presence despite facing ve...

Read more

Originally posted by brother-trick

Oh, both teams played 'badly'. As you would expect with 2 fairly evenly matched opponents. But those mistakes are not actually playing badly, but playing against a well prepared and mentally resilient opponent.

In 2017. EDG in one game had 9-0 in kills and 10k gold advantage and in other game they had 6-0 in kills with 6k gold advantage. In both games obviously they got baron and had total map control and still lost the game.

I do not really recall people or analysts saying that EDG played better League of Legends or making arguments that they'd win with reversed draft. General narrative was 'EDG played so well for so long, but you give SKT and inch and they will take miles.'

Narrative back then was - its because SKT is so good that they can turn a single enemy mistake from 100% loss into a win.