Sounds like someone’s playing Last Epoch.
I've only played a couple of hours so far, attention split between OSRS, Helldivers, CS and LE. But you're not wrong that it's in the rotation - though POE has contributed more than anything to 'ARPG affix brainrot'.
Can you expand on how loot will be collected at the course? Will there be a chest or something that you can obtain your loot from at any time? When you obtain your loot, will your laps reset?
Also, kudos for the extra into. I think the time to break even being laid out is much more impactful vs. just saying "3.2m an hour".
e: I'm also glad to see the tidbit about PvP learners. As someone skeptical of these wilderness changes, it's not because I hate PvPers, I want to PvP, I have done casual PvP in every MMO I've played, except runescape. Simply because it's nearly impossible to learn unless you inundate yourself within that area of knowledge.
Loot accumulates each lap, goes into a looting bag if you have an open one. If you've got spaces in your invent, the loot will offer you some Blighted supplies to top up so you can elongate trips if you're wanting to stick it out longer. Laps don't reset, you'd tap the pillar/loot chest after each lap.
I still think the overall design of wilderness agility is bad. I get that you want to increase rewards to make it both worth going and worth pk'ing, but it should not offer both (near) top experience rates as well as sizable loot, the goals of people doing the content (both pkers and agility-doers) clash so hard its just going to make everyone upset.
Trying to tank there is a crapshoot too, since the only way out via the log lets people stack like 3 hits on you on the way out.
I wonder if a better design would just be -
Higher fee (250k+) on entry, same rules for lost on death, slightly higher xp rates that you hit instantly (~75k/h), no loot. Pkers would still be incentivized to go here because you can kill a lot of people fast for their fees, but staying there just risks your agility rates or something instead of actual loot.
I think we're really hesitant to offer rates beyond that from Wilderness content because it's not historically been popular, it feels like players find it more frustrating being killed and not risking anything (like suiciding at the Chaos Altar). The fee isn't xferred to a PKer, it's removed from the game entirely (a hard-sink, to offset some incoming GP).
Do you reckon in practise that you'd prefer being killed by newer PKers and likely not hitting that XP rate while sinking money? I don't think the team are opposed to it, but historically focusing on XP/hr for Wilderness content doesn't feel too popular even with people who like engaging with Wilderness content.
Any chance of a new graceful set coming to the wildy course? Something like skull graceful or ghostly graceful? As a graceful collector I would love an excuse to go participate in the content.
SaeBae suggested similar in a recent ramble, and we've seen calls for it in the past too. We're fans of the idea, just that the point of these 'extra' updates is 'Undead Pirates is pretty chill to make, can we make other stuff in a similar vein that's likely to ship alongside them' and getting resource from the Art team while they're plugging away at Varlamore and other bits might over-scope things a little from a development perspective!
if I missed this mb, but what about a guy who'll unnote stuff at the wilderness course? if your goal is to stay forever, if you bring max and fight back you'd have to resupply right causing you to leave and cancel your streak? or is that that looting is for?
Think a part of the blighted supply rollout would encompass giving you unnoted supplies if you have the inventory space so that you can stay topped up - but an unnote NPC might also work out!
I really feel as though this could have been an opportunity to add melee armour that matters for pures or another item in general.
The headspace has a halo which is just a defense item, you use ranged chaps for your BIS generally over fremnik kilt, Varrock armour is dated.
Elders drop the elder pieces, pirates should’ve dropped something neat in that sense as well.
I'd love for us to take a swing at gearing and demystifying it a little. Difficult line to walk between empowering ragging vs. helping newer PvPers figure out gearing more easily, and also how we distribute that gear.
I'd really want to see us have another go at something like that from Emir's Arena, where people get to learn and reliably stock up on starter gear to try and put what they've learned into practise. In this particular case, it's difficult to rely on gear to keep profit vaguely consistent because you never know where it's going to shake out.
Glad to see a comment like this, think it goes way beyond Pures in terms of better-equipping people (in the literal sense of the word) to feel empowered to engage in a scrap or two!
Issue in lower levels is that the bots can instantly tele.
In higher levels you get the 126 issue
The teleporting issue's circumvented at Undead Pirates via Teleblock from Elder Chaos Druids, because you're absolutely right that it is an issue!
Warpguard scroll maybe?
This sounds miles cooler than 'Blipblock', but the bar was pretty low. I like it, feels very 'fantasy'!
Read more“We’re not looking to bait people into the wilderness”
You sure? It seems like the entire idea is to put more pvmers in the wild who have no interest in pvping but feel obligated to do it because of the insane money/xp. The pkers then get mad when pvmers bring scout alts/insta log/etc, but the pvmer is always going to be at a disadvantage.
Another easy no vote from me.
Totally get where you're coming from. The team's perspective is that there are alternative moneymakers outside of the Wilderness that exceed these rates (see here) that aren't going to become worse or be impacted in any significant way. Agility has better options for XP and GP, since the rates provided assume you're uninterrupted.
The question for us when designing stuff like this is, 'where so many safe alternatives exist, why would anybody take th...
Read moreYou made bounty hunting boosting against the rules, right? Make playing a clan for protection while you skill against the rules so clans don't take over these hotspots like they had with Rev caves. Singles doesn't mean anything if people buying gold can pay for protection while they make 5x what they paid a clan.
Absolutely something we could explore, I think in the past we've had designers say that the 'emergent' side of interactions like those are the kind of thing devs dream about, but if they're too difficult to challenge or the end results sour (i.e. RWT that we're not fully on top of) then absolutely have faith that the team would step in and make changes to ensure the content stays healthy.
Why not just make the wildy course multiply xp based on the risk you are wearing? Make it so you can’t insta logout while in the course. Could make for a ton of intense PvP scenarios. Could be cool to see someone risk 1b gear to get the best agility xp rates! I think it would be a lot more interesting than what is proposed here.
Think I replied to a tweet (presumably yours) on this, so will paste reply for wider visibility: " We've spoken a bunch in the past about systems like these and run into problems with stuff like 'what if people use never-traded items with really high values to inflate that can't really be easily shifted'. It's a technical challenge, but not off the table for future "
I like the agility changes but my suggestion would be instead of skeletons: - Prevent logout for 3 seconds after you complete any agility activity. So after you cross the log, swing the rope, etc. You get a 3 second cooldown before you can logout.
This would make it similar to the blocked logout after a spell is cast at the fountain of Rune. Making things more consistent.
And I think with the insane amount of alchs available at fountain of rune that 3 seconds isn't long enough. People will be able to log before the pker running up the landing can get to them. I think 5 seconds / ticks would be a lot more reasonable for the amount of reward they're going to get.
We're absolutely open to increasing the existing delay if 3s isn't enough, but a delay much smaller than that was definitely felt at Revenants so we think it's more of a 'wait and see' scenario than overcorrecting in advance - it still has to pass a poll first!
" Without Amylase in the mix, it's ~23 laps or ~16 minutes of running around at the speed of sound. "
Goddammit, time to go listen to Escape from the City for the 108392112 time.
Absolute swimbimbler of a tune!
Scrap the fountain of rune idea and wilderness agility idea while also moving the undead pirates to a better location (most likely a coast line in level 20-25 wilderness). The reason why this needs to be removed entirely is because this will add so much gold to the economy and will be botted to hell.
The whole point of the Undead Pirates is to serve as a hotspot in a lower Wilderness level to give alternative builds a place to reasonably engage with something in the Wilderness (and for players who might not be maxed to not guarantee fights with 126s over and over).
Appreciate your concerns on the other bits, we tried to go into express detail in the updated blog about how the content aims to combat bots and inflationary concerns - but we're still conscious that it won't alleviate those concerns for some, and that's totally okay!
Potential different name for blip blocking scroll could be "grounding" scroll or something like that?
I don't mind it, feel like it has more associations with blocking electricity but maybe that's just ARPG affix brainrot for me...
Reminder to look after your wrists and stretch them out regularly when spending time doing near enough anything at your PC, and to play the game however you like and find fun - which includes playing efficiently!
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The agility course presents some issues with fighting back though. Agility encourages you to weigh as little as possible. Counter pking requires you to wear armor, bring weapons, and food and potions. I think if you want to make fighting back viable for the non pkers, the wildy agility course will need to ignore weight or provide a significant run energy regeneration bonus.I think it's also worthwhile for you guys to consider what it is about Wilderness PvP that attracted pkers, and find a healthy way to recreate that. If it was just fighting other players, then maybe it would be better to give the PVP Arena more love and find good unique rewards for it. If the part those players liked though was hunting non pkers, you guys need to be really careful how you do it. History has shown the non pkers usually don't like being part of that. Finding a new way to offer that kind of gameplay might be a better approach.
Edit: I'm an idiot, I missed that part in the...
"Touching the pillar (or chest!) will also restore your Run Energy, so you can indulge in some heavier gear and fight back against anyone causing trouble – and free up some Inventory slots you would otherwise spend on Stamina Potions!" is in there, because we agree! Would rather give people the freedom to actually gear up to fight back if they'd like, and actively encourage people to actually engage rather than let themselves perish/log (likely not possible).
Agree to some extent that I think it'd be cool to find more of the 'other' stuff that's fun for veteran PKers and encourages newer PKers to get involved. That being said, there very much are still people who enjoy what the Wilderness offers even if they're not PKers, and we have been putting in work to try and decouple some of the longer-standing 'forced' talking points that are far less prevalent these days!
Maybe some clarity on mechanics within the game? What about an overlay indicator that tells us if there's a wilderness specific mechanic there?
A lot of people are just unaware, and you shouldn't have to look an area up first. It's smart to do, but that should always be reflected in gameplay.
Think it'd be cool to see if we could expand the 'overlay' offerings maybe beyond just 'Wildy Level' and 'Single/Single+/Multi', will see if the team would be willing to have a sit-down and think about feasible components for something like that!
Any word on pickpocket chance rework
Will be in an upcoming Project Rebalance blog sometime next month, finished writing up Thieving stuff earlier this morning funnily enough!
Also worth keeping in mind that the rates in question assume you're wholly uninterrupted
Do you guys have provisions in mind to prevent a repeat of the multi revs situation? It seems like it would be way too easy for a clan to lock down the area and let players get these uninterrupted rates. And historically, that's led to an increase in RWT.
Is the thinking that it'll be difficult for a clan to do so because the whole area isn't multi? That brings up the question though of how you'll prevent this at the pirates, since those are multi.
I think relative to what multi revs was, nothing in this poll comes anywhere close to that. I'm not sure it'd be worth paying for protection at content where better alternatives exist, coupled with there being more worlds than there were at the time, Agi Course being singles, Undead Pirates being harder to 'control' because it's so open since it's above ground and because it's a low Wilderness level so it's hard for one clan to have the numbers to cover all of the potential brackets in a meaningful way, no uniques on the same 'tier' for desirability as revs weapons (since a lot of the people paying for protection back in the day were Irons looking for the GP and revs uniques).
RWT is a separate issue for ACT to tackle, and they continue to ban buyers and sellers - if protection did pop up and ultimately lead to RWT, I imagine ACT would have a field day tracking stuff down, but from a content perspective I'm not really convinced this is a good fit for prote...
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