I misunderstood the champion names underneath "Durability pass on old Immortal Shieldbow users" as being the champions getting a durability pass because they bought shieldbow. It took until Lux before I realized I was wrong, because I somehow thought Elise and Gnar were old Shieldbow users.
Oh, no you're totally right. We're buffing AD Lux.
Can we add Zyra to that? Would actually love it if she felt better to play midlane, and people would be very happy to see her less in support I think :)
FWIW Zyra pretty much instantly took to support. She was stronger mid by ~1.5% win rate on release but people played her support instead.
Brand, Xerath, and Vel'Koz were much slower adoptions. I'm not going to opine on why, just merely comment on trends.
If jungle isn't turbobusted, no one plays it.
Jungle and Supp are the 2 roles that have to be extra-busted for queues not to get too long.
Not really true. Jungle has had a fairly similar level of powerful for the last three years running and has steadily climbed in pick rate.
They don't want junglers to play PvE. They want action because of esports.
Not exactly. It’s important that jungle ganks are a threat otherwise you get darius level 1 starting behind your minion line. (It’s more complex than that)
You want some degree of ambiguity: is the threat top side? Can I be ganked? Just not the level of actual power we have now.
What item should poor little gnar build phreak senpai
He’s really good with Trinity
Is the intention with the phage in the build path to make it a lot more attractive to laners?
It’s a nice side benefit but wasn’t the primary reason: I wanted to even out its stat line on both the finished item and component front. Phage was a thematic fit with Goredrinker so it was an easy choice.
FWIW Goredrinker is the most-built item for jungle fighters
Aren't they just wrong though? Pound-for-pound Stride is generally better on junglers: gives better clear, has better dps against Epic monsters, don't really need the Omnivamp because you heal a lot off camps, and Stride helps a lot more with ganks than Gore.
Lee, Xin, Jarvan; all jungle champs you would assume SHOULD be building Gore are instead having more success with Stride because its stats are just flatout better for doing damage.
So the above comment is still true: people shouldn't be building Gore because it just doesn't do enough damage--even the other Whip item is better.
Generally, yeah, Stride is just better by a lot.
But this goredrinker change makes it worse overall for the champions that want to use it and if it’s already built on few champions in few situations and you’re saying it should be built LESS that makes no sense. This is going to make it built less for sure and it’s already not a popular item. Maybe im completely wrong but are you able to provide more insight on why this change is being made to the item? Who are the target champions that you want to be using this item? And in what situations?
FWIW Goredrinker is the most-built item for jungle fighters. It scores much worse in top lane, to be fair, but the item actually has a decent cohort of users.
The intent is for the Ironspike Whip items to be aimed at heavier fighters who are meant to quite literally be in melee range on top of as many people as possible. The shape of the actives pretty much beg you to be surrounded. In my mind, an item like that shouldn't have only 300 HP. They're also not critically underpowered, so while this is a buff overall, it's not just pure +150 HP.
Could be that we're just meant to take it more slowly with changes and players adapt to these stronger items over time.
Is ravenous hydra becoming a mythic or are Goredrinker and stridebreaker becoming legendaries then?
On the Shojin thing, I guess that's fair.
I think some fighters should be tankier. And yeah people need to be brought off Duskblade. I just don't completely agree with this methodology. Like couldn't you have done +75 HP and no change to AD? And you already nerfed duskblade?
Or maybe just buff the more durability centric fighter items like Deadmans, FON, Steraks, Death Dance, or something else?
Cause unless you're making new mythics for the lighter fighters? Or are you gonna just say lighter fighters lost 2 mythic options? Is Riven now gonna be balanced around triforce or sunderer?
Tldr: my issue is largely this is targeted at half the mythics.
Ultimately it's tough to get exactly a mythic item that fits not only the combat pattern (Do you like Sheen? Do you like attack speed?) and also the durability profile. That's definitely a key flaw with mythic items.
For now, Eclipse is a pretty reasonable light fighter item. I do think the tankier side of champions are a bit underserved but it might be that we just have to wait a while and even though tankier fighters are a little underserved we may not want to shift stat lines around.
As a secondary benefit, though, top lane becomes less snowbally and the game as a whole becomes less bursty if fighters on average build into more HP and less AD
Yeah, I bet all those challanger Riven mains on Korea must be trolling.
You cant go hydra every matchup, considering there are some juggernauts that just one-shot you without gore. Plus, considering she is one of the only top laners in this day and age without ANY form of penetration, you should always build a bc as second item, so hydra build take very long to go online since you delay your mythic so much (third item). Those factors mean Riven should indeed build gore in many games.
Please, talk to someone who plays Riven on the balance team, if that person even exists
I mean even in exactly Challenger in Korea, it's still 50/50 Goredrinker and Ravenous 1st item. You can't really apply win rates with so little a sample, so I won't bother. If you zoom out enough to get a decent picture, (e.g. Master+ worldwide), Ravenous is more common and statistically significantly higher win rate.
You're right that there are going to be matchups where a champion must build tankier. But on average, Riven is succeeding with the items meant for her.
sounds like insanely good 1st item and even now Shojin 1st is probably the best option to do
Yeah Shojin is a great Hecarim item. Ideally I'd like to bribe him off of Manamune and Duskblade so he's less one-shotty.
Yes I know it's a gold efficiency win... But not all bruisers value beefiness equally.
Like yeah Garden going stridebreaker is gonna be really happy. Or Goredrinker Illaoi.
But someone like say Fiora or Riven? Not so much.
Similarly (but not as drastic as) Xerath compared to Brand or Ryze or something when talking about the value of the HP on random mage items.
Edit and gore/stride are mythics so they should cater to heavier and lighter fighters... And Shojin is almost exclusively a lighter fighter item. And not intended to be very defensive.
Fiora and Riven already have Ravenous Hydra as an aggressive high-Haste option.
IMO Shojin is too narrow by being only slightly different from Ravenous. I intend to give more mid-sized fighters a solid selfish option that's not a) too light on durability and b) only viable 3rd+
On average, I think fighters need to be tankier than they are now and bribed a bit to back off of items like Duskblade. Note, this is on average. Fiora, Riven, etc. are meant to be on the squishier side.
Some day Riot will understand that people don't like building Gore because it deals no damage, not really because it's not tanky enough.
Aatrox, Riven and other champs that want Gore build Eclipse instead because it gives them more damage, simple as that. Gore is an item that kinda works ok as 1st or 2nd slot, but scales like shit.
Riven is the exact kind of champion we want building items like Ravenous Hydra. Players should build Goredrinker less and those that do are trolling anyway.
Eclipse is a pretty reasonable fighter item. It's certainly very aggressive, but it's explicitly meant to be viable on them.
The stuff that's really rough is the fighters going ER/Collector/Duskblade as common builds. It means they don't care about durability enough and they just become assassins.
I think there's meant to be a spectrum to fighter items: Some are ultra-aggressive (Ravenous, BotRK, Kraken) that make sense on skirmishers, then there's aggressive-bent ones like Trinity Force that make sense on the next tankiest tier, and then there's more durability-first fighter items like Death's Dance, Sterak's, and where I think Goredrinker should be. To be clear, Aatrox and Riven are not close together on this spectrum.
Ultimately there are champions who are meant to have a lot of durability an ...
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It doesn't shop up in Moonplate's tooltip either, but that effect is unique like many others.
The patch notes documenting the change to magic damage called it a unique passive, no clarification that this restriction was removed there. So how do you expect the players to know about this change?
Valid point.
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Recurve_Bow
"Unique: Steeltipped Basic attacks deal 15 bonus magic damage on-hit."
That's an unofficial wiki. Their tooltips almost never match the in-game tooltip, which I wrote in this case.
This is intentional. For most of the epics that were rebalanced in 13.10 I tried to tune them to be reasonably strong items you should feel good about buying and also letting them stack because they should be reasonably balanced.
How? It's a unique passive shouldn't stack.
I don’t believe the word “unique” shows up anywhere on the item.
A multiplier that you are actively pretending it's stronger than it is. Most champions HAVE to buy % pen item 2nd or 3rd so the armor and mr and so much worse than hp. Hence why overgrowth and scaling hp rune has been on the rise
About half of Yorick's common matchups don't get % pen from their kit or common item buys. Additionally, the durability being placed into armor/mr is resistant to %hp damage, which several of Yorick's matchups have.
I'm not saying it's strictly a buff, but there's also a really severe negativity bias here.
Is the health at lv18 meant to be 1650 on live? The preview said 1950 and so does the client patch notes but then the website patch notes say 1650 along with live.
I'm unsure. I meant to ship 1950 and either made a mistake (entirely possible) or someone tuned her down because of playtesting feedback or another reason (also entirely possible).
I'm very happy to revisit Maiden durability if Yorick ends up in a bad state next patch.
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