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WE TAKE THOSE. WE TAKE THOSE
WE TAKE THOSE. WE TAKE THOSE
So, the way I've felt that adcs warp the meta is things like: How tanky tanks are is based on how well they survive adc damage, how effective assassins are is how reliably they kill adcs, how effective supports are is how well they peel/engage on adcs, how abusable econ strats are is how much adcs can abuse them...
It's not that other champs/roles can't have value, but that the value is almost always measured around adcs.
Counter-point: The game is based around tanks. ADC exist to kill tanks because tanks have too good of MR itemization. If your K'Sante (or Malphite, etc.) can't die, he'll solo kill the entire enemy team. So now how do we prevent Aphelios from killing K'Sante? OK how do we stop Vi from stopping Aphelios? OK how do we handle Lulu shutting down Vi? Etc.
Suddenly if Force of Nature is weak (or just not overpowered), it only takes a Viktor or Azir or Ryze to kill K'Sante. Now it's a Jhin + Ashe meta because it's much easier to allow a Viktor optimal DPS uptime than it is a Jinx.
I'm not saying that either your or my post are "the way" League is played. But one can make up a cyclical argument from any start point and it usually works.
If the defensive team comp is defending then you need to attack somewhere else. The ADC has to show up on waves. You accomplish stuff where they aren't.
Very good Phreak, what do I do when the game revolves around dragons and baron?
Do something with your early prio to set your team ahead and take their turrets when they do dragon setup. And if they do dragon setup lazily just kill one of them before the fight.
To be clear, playing assassins against coordinated teams is hard but Akali was a Worlds-winning pick in the previous major int’l tournament.
Wanted to ask - your thoughts about nerfing exhaust/ghost on ranged champs? Feels like that in mid/high elo every marksman just runs one of that summs and just becomes unkillable.
Ghost ADC is pretty OP.
Exhaust is clearly really sharp against burst champions but I think that one is more OK
Legit question don't you feel it weird that an entire class (assassin) is barely played or even though about in proplay ?
Like for a solid 2 years (maybe three but im not sure) the only assassin that has ever been took sometimes was leblanc. And she wasn't even assassinating people she would just dominate lane too hard with aery or poke people repeateadly with QR.
Kassadin had a 3 week or so meta at start of the year.
But i can't remember the last time in draft phase any team would fear X player assassin pool. How come that even assassin like fizz, that technically have the possibility to full by pass stuff like lulu polymorph, can't even be played in pro cause they will not kill an adc
Akali and LeBlanc have frequently been popular pro champions.
Read moreBut in pro play we can assume that most, if not all, top laners are capable of playing sidelaners at a high level. Some, like Zeus, even made a name for themselves in this way. Even so, the pro play meta is pretty much just a deathball vs deathball affair, despite what you are saying about playing the cross-map and splitting the enemy team. So if the counter to deathball comps is making them split up, and top laners are presumably capable of playing these more split-oriented champions and strategies, why are we not seeing that at the highest levels? I dont pretend to be a league expert by any means, but it seems like objectives are just too important to give up in a cross map, and ADCs are so important to getting those objectives that funneling everything into them is the way to go in the upper echelons.
With full respect therefore, saying "ADC isnt that game-warping, just play the cross map and split them bro" sounds like the game-dev equivalent of the "Olaf is ...
I mean we have years of pro play that has shown many years of ADC not being meta-defining including seasons with the current dragon soul system.
This thread is largely people calling the structure flawed when it’s evident there aren’t really structural issues. Tuning ones maybe.
Congrats!
The problem though is that the game is now dragon-centric. There's only so much you can achieve while giving up 3 dragons. Most games nowadays are centered around dragon fights compared to season 2018, 2019. Splitpushers aren't played at all. I know it's an incredibly difficult task, but it feels like the variety died with Dragon Souls and the shift got more and more apparent over the years.
Btw just to add that: I appreciate that you're in the comments and your youtube content to add more context to the decisions even if I and others might disagree with some of them. Thank you for that breath of fresh air :)
We just had Worlds dominated by Sylas, Aatrox, Akali. That was before the dragon nerfs this year. LCK dominated that tournament and their teams all had ultra low dragon prio.
History says that the doomer comments in this post are wrong.
Yea, i Remember those and personally liked them more; but i think that split pushing Is not as rewarding as grouping as 5 and walk down mid as of today.
Also on a side note, can i ask why whit the adc items rework u guys are putting AP damages almost everywhere? I didnt do the match but from next patch almost every adc Will do Hybrid damage no?
Not very much. Little of it scales with crit and only some of it scales with attack speed. Physical crits will be significantly larger.
But also doesnt seem Fair that both are Building damage items but one gets 500-800 shield while having a lulu/Leona/rakan/nautilus and other 3 role peeling for him
If every other champion's job is peeling for a damage dealer, make them do something else.
Plenty of pro tournaments have been played where winning top and mid meant more than winning bot. Very little has changed about the game since last Worlds.
so whats the counterplay and counter to adcs if not assassins lmao
I mean, specifically picking peel is the counter to an assassin. Lmao, or something.
If the defensive team comp is defending then you need to attack somewhere else. The ADC has to show up on waves. You accomplish stuff where they aren't.
Not all the teams have good top laners and not all the teams pick champions who are good on side lanes but generally speaking if one team is making a deathball then you either make a better deathball or you split it apart. Picking a worse deathball comp and complaining that you lose to their deathball is just kinda obvious.
What happened is that phreak reduced the adc spike by a whole f**king item and called it a power neutral change
No I didn't lmao there are tapes and everything. I've been extremely communicative about our changes and specifically said more or less, "ADC is already strong but they need satisfaction wins right now, we'll nerf when we can."
Blame phreak, he gave into reddit whining and made adc shielding and enchanters gigabusted in higher mmrs so that low elos can feel good about adc.
TIL I buffed enchanters? Are we even reading the same patch notes? You know, the ones where I buffed a bunch of engage tanks?
How to people upvote directly obviously wrong stuff like this?
Thats not true.
If adc wasnt broken then there would be answers to these teamfighting comps.
Assasins like Zed would be picked so that they can eleminate the ADC and render the Tank comp worthless.
But its not happening Because with BT overheal ADcs have a billion ehp.
Zed has zero chance to kill an ADC with a Lulu attached, whether or not they go BT or Shieldbow. Whimsy will always shut that down way too hard. Replace Lulu with Rakan or Nautilus or Leona and the result is still the same. If someone's job is dedicated peel, an assassin will never win in a team fight.
This is a gift, thank you. XD
Roa stacking on old ryze just felt so beautiful :')
Not trying to BM but why is it considered acceptable to just remove popular features for zero for a patch?
Like we haven't had in-game reporting for 13 years, we really can't wait one patch to deploy it without removing a part of the UI?
There was some amount of miscommunication that led to the missing indicator being removed as part of this work. We’re going to figure out what caused it so that it’s less likely to happen in the future. This is how we do continuous improvement.
NAmen
NAmen
Nothing against you, you've just seemed to have changed something in the way you have casted that kind of affected it negatively for me, I can't exactly pinpoint what it was and it caught me off guard, normally a big fan of you on screen.
As for Nisqy, well he sprinted it
So it's a taste thing, or a perspective, that mad lost and you didn't like it because I celebrated T1? It's just interesting and strong words without context.
If it's just taste, sorry, things change and hopefully I'll win you back but if there is actionable stuff always happy to hear 😁