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Literally unplayable.
Came here to make this comment. Glad to see it’s already at the top.
Literally unplayable.
Came here to make this comment. Glad to see it’s already at the top.
so it encourages her to play the same pattern she would normally play
I mean yeah but she also shines in extended fights which Eclipse is terrible at for ranged champions, even more so on one who doesn't need vamp/lifesteal and who has enough range to not get hit during the shield duration. I'm probably wrong since everyone builds it and she retains a good winrate, but it doesn't make sense to me
She shines in extended fights says who? Her cooldowns are long, her attack speed is low, and her per-target damage is front loaded off of Q+Auto with a hefty cooldown on her passive.
She is specifically far worse than other marksmen and other supports in long engagements.
gangplank is the embodiment of league players trying not to lose to shopkeeper challenge (impossible)
him and ezreal would be 55%+ champs if people knew how to build
Don't forget Senna!
I'll say in general I'm a fan of Riot balancing the game "as is." Certainly they could have picked better wording, e.g. "Players are struggling on Gangplank" as opposed to "Gangplank is struggling," if that's even the verbiage used.
But anyway my point is that the results from last patch's games are what actually happened. People probably made misplays in every single game but at the end of the day, theoretical balance isn't nearly as important as balancing the game people are playing. This means Yasuo and Riven have lower levels of "theoretical balance" due to champion mastery and Gangplank is theoretically too strong and should be nerfed once players figure out builds.
And yeah that can feel weird. But I think a) lets players feel smart and get an edge for figuring out builds first, and b) most players don't do a ton of innovation and that's fine but they should be able to be reasonably successful by just following along.
This is the best thing I've ever seen happen to this game. It's about time. Thank you.
Appreciate the comment. Thanks for playing League. :)
Idk, you guys should have around 202-208 years by now
You’re right it’s probably an out of date figure. ;)
This. This right here is the main reason I haven't left this soul crusher of a game already. Most of the time I hate you but do know that when I don't I love you guys. Keep making me angry that Riven exists if it means you'll drop hope bombs like this one. Have a - day.
PS: Love the Swain rework btw.
<3
Are you able to share what you think will happen with burst mages then? Seems like the changes may benefit drain or dot mages a bit
Mixed signals. If I had to guess I'd expect them mostly to be similar or weaker, but very low confidence.
Basically they're worse at one-shotting you themselves, but most of them have a long range CC spell optimized for generating picks and picking an enemy when you have teammates around is still lethal; increased champion durability potentially gives them more chances to generate that pick.
The uncertainty is why we're not attempting any pre-balancing here.
I've always wanted to ask, what does balance team think about the idea of balancing AD assassins through lethality scalings?
Then they can have less base damage and AD scalings, since damage with lethality items will stay the same and at the same time probably-nerfed lethality items can't be as effectively used by someone else (ghostblade riven as example). Similar things were aready done to Pyke (lethality), Viego and Zeri (crit) to encourage their intended build paths. Senna also has lethality scalings, so concept of just having them isn't new either.
what does balance team think about the idea of balancing AD assassins through lethality scalings?
Open to it, haven't felt we needed it very often. Could be a useful tool if necessary after these changes if we're seeking new balance approaches.
But even if assassins are balanced after the changes their winrates will most definitely plummet anyway at first because they've had 3/4 years of getting consistently easier kills, how long will you take to make sure it's a balance issue rather than a player issue, how will you determine that?
Imprecisely. We'll be using the best data we can get access to as well as our judgment but the reality is this game is too complicated to get perfect confidence in stuff like this, and some situations are going to look extreme enough that we feel we need to act when in retrospect it'll turn out we didn't have to, or even did the wrong thing.
For example, you mention a learning curve for assassins around their burst thresholds; there's also going to be a learning curve for ADCs around the appropriate safe distance for them to position at, and there'll be teams that lose games because their ADCs played too safe while the opponent's ADC judged it better. Will this be a larger effect than Assassin learning? It's hard to measure and we won't have perfect context.
It is going to take time for balance to settle back down - there's no way around it.
Read moreI'm more interested in knowing if anything is going to be done about bruisers building things like death's dance and maw and becoming unkillable gods with assassin tier damage that take a team-wide effort to be handled. Increasing the durability is good, but bruisers are already insanely tanky, should we expect them to be even tankier? Cause if that's the case then it's going to feel terrible. Are they gonna get a clear direction and be forced to make sacrifices like every other class in the game does, or are they still going to be able to just get everything they could possibly want with a couple items without any concession whatsoever? The goredrinker->death's dance->maw combo for example covers absolutely every possible area and is so stupidly overpowered it completely warps the game around. Even assassins who build just DD and maw suddenly become bruisers while still retaining their massive damage.
Another thing that I'm concerned about is that poking i...
They will not do assassin levels of damage when the target they are killing is more durable. If items are still OP after the durability update we can nerf them. Poke is something we are watching as well.
Will Elise get compensated at all?
I like the changes overall but can’t help but acknowledge Elise is going to be missing several legs this patch.
- void nerfed
- MR increased
- towers kill her laners faster when diving
- less healing
- more enemy HP
- the changes don’t benefit her like other champs cause she can’t take extended duels and her DPS was hard gutted.
- already struggling on live as a tower diving cheese pick with certain AD laners.
We will balance champions on a champion-by-champion basis.
Do you anticipate that these changes will necessitate a ton of champion balance adjustments throughout the following patches?
Yup, loads.
Any reason why Dragons and Herald didn't receive changes like Baron did?
Really excited for the changes btw!
Dragon we could likely adjust too. Herald I believe just doesn't do enough damage to be threatening in most cases anyway.
What exactly is the point of this given that the champions that suffer from these changes will eventually be buffed to alleviate their new weaknesses?
For example, everyone knows assassins will be hit hardest by this and will eventually be buffed, and those buffs will most likely contain extra damage somewhere, circumventing the extra durability and bringing us back to where we started off.
So what is the point exactly? A meta shake-up?
That information is in the article. We want assassins to still be able to fulfill their fantasy so long as you play well. Currently on live, Zed kills squishies without landing anything very consistently, for example. Or talon builds tank. We want to remedy these issues but maintain that assassins are threats when itemizing correctly and playing well.
Have you thought about how this will affect under-tower CSing? Or will the increased turret damage only affect damage to champions?
Only champions, thanks for the question
Are you guys going to be taking a look at Death's Dance as a result of these changes? Out of the list that was the one item I was expecting to see the most. Increasing durability and decreasing overall healing is great, but I feel like DD is just going to be even more oppressive than it already is right now. Maybe a decrease in its damage conversion by like 5%?
No planned changes but no items/systems are off the table for future adjustments.
Read moreLess of a hot take/question and more of a general comment - please keep in mind the small number of (mostly older) burst champions who already have to use their whole kit in order to score a burst kill, which I agree is generally a healthy dynamic. Naturally I'm approaching this as a Fiddlesticks main, as Fiddle can aid in kills without his ult but isn't soloing anyone (beyond level 3) by walking up and using EQW on them.
Fiddle's also susceptible to being collateral damage here, as he still derives a huge ratio of his total damage from high base damage values (and thus, penetration) rather than AP ratio damage, when compared to most other mages. This means flat buffs to health and MR cut against his current state more directly than other mages, and are likely to render him even more reliant on penetration or pseudo-penetration (Void Staff, Shadowflame, % damage amp...). But I agree, it will take a bit of time to see how it all shakes out a...
We can make adjustments on a champ-by-champ basis to ensure each individual champion can still fulfill their fantasy
What will be done with champs that regen missing or max health? Seems like Garen will come out big on these changes. On the flip side, top laners with no built in sustain will feel very weak or Mana hungry.
I was on pantheon yesterday against a pretty bad Fiora (never ripostes effectively), and i couldn't touch her despite being up 2k gold, and levels. She had hullbreaker and bork. I had yomuus, DS, and DD. I feel like this change will only exacerbate that GSP between champs with and without innate sustain.
We will adjust on a champ-by-champ basis post-ship
Have you guys thought about where this puts tanks? Sustain increases make duellists even happier into tanks and the flat increases do less for tanks
Yes we have tested tanks and found them to still be very effective (if not more effective)
When you say you're going to reduce healing and shielding, do you mean those item changes or are we going to see individual value nerfs on skills?
Both