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Phreak snatched atleast 5 puns from the champ reveal haha.
Other way around - this was written first :D
is odin his real name?
Yeah, it's pretty epic.
I'd argue that any free time for Aatrox is such excruciating pain that it motivates him to go destroy something.
But Odin would be the real one who knows.
literally unplayable
"Schalke?... No one is gonna say Schalke, there is no one who believes in Schalke."
images that precede unfortunate events
FWIW, Hecarim and Udyr each received several nerfs in addition to Chemtank being nerfed.
A champ that gets AD from movement speed that builds three movement speed TANK items to also deal damage in return will not be balanced by spell numbers tho.
I bet if Hecarim Q dealt 12 base damage he'd be unplayable. Wanna take me up on it?
I agree with your overall point, but unless something has really changed, Kindred has never been good into Udyr. I haven't played jungle since the season started, so maybe galeforce or something has changed things for Kindred, but they could never kite an Udyr, unless you keep jumping back and forth over a wall. He is simply too fast, and I would suspect its similar to Taliyah. This was before chemtank, and I imagine chemtank has made the jungle matchup harder. Maybe winrates support Kindred doing well into Udyr, but that is definitely not because they can kite him.
Agree that there are some counters, but just an exception to that one. A good Udyr will always shit on a Kindred. Once you get your second item you can start standing up to him, but in pro play I assume that is far too late.
A lot of it is also that he just doesn't get anything done against Kindred ultimate. You're not oneshotting, even with help, with Flash Bear Slap so after Lamb's Respite you're just a 20% health Udyr in front of a team. It's not terribly successful. Jumping walls also lets them get away reasonably well.
Kindred aren't in a great spot in overall power, but the Udyr matchup is very winrate positive.
but you do. priority or not, if everyone reacts, level 4 > 3 makes the fight in your favor every time. plus your smite is stronger.
Your smite dealing 30 damage is not going to make up for the 500 health and flash you lost because Viktor roamed first and you can't 1v2 in front of a full health scuttle. Good players use wards and just shepherd the crab out of smite range.
I'm just curious for your opinion, but do you think nerfing systems around the jungle meta (Phase Rush/Chemtank, even the starting jungle item) would do more for the meta than actual changes to the jungle champs?
I think Chemtank dominating both pro play and solo queue win rates would indicate Chemtank is more the problem. At least it got nerfed two weeks ago. It's possible that the cheaper tank mythics were just not a good idea since it heavily pushes junglers, who have slightly less gold income than most roles in pro, to just play for the cheaper mythics and move forward.
I don't think Phase Rush is that meta warping. If anything it's pushing back on melee run-at-you junglers since Orianna and Cassiopeia can just run away from them with their keystone.
Having perseverance and pushing yourself to better tomorrow than you are today is something that everyone should be proud of. Grats. :)
huh, that makes sense. I hadn't thought about it that way, but as someone who loved the lounge casts when someone like Meteos was on, it makes sense why these co-streams are working so well (and definitely appreciate having the extra freedom).
I am still sad we lost the fog of war casts though (and pro-view after that).
Once we're back in studio, we can be more flexible with our capabilities. Pro-View will definitely be returning.
TFT Turbo: The "rounds til level up" bar displays over the first champion in your shop when playing on 1440p ultrawide resolution
This is helpful. Appreciate the clear conversation + involvement in the community.
Are there any plans on nerfing MS in general + do you think Mage items this season that have mana are a bit lackluster? It's wild that I can play Garen have a Stridebreaker dash + 300 armor and 300 AD but there's no counter for mages.
Sure there is. Void Staff exists as do all sorts of ways to slow him down or stop him in his tracks.
sorry did you say taliyah and kindred for outkiting udyr? the guy that runs at 600 movement speed constantly without chemtank?
Yeah if we make up numbers anything can be true! Taliyah does over 9000 damage and just oneshots the poor guy!
please tell me why even allow such one dimensional, non skill expressive champs to be viable not even in d2+ games but in pro play ?
Udyr actually has some of the steepest champion mastery in the game. Turns out that when you have no gap closers or escapes and can only use one ability at a time, knowing when to go in, leave, or choose among damage/durability/disables is pretty skillful.
And this isn't even mentioning their impact on soloq, at least hecarim is perma banned so you don't have to deal with him often.
Phreak this is a slight tangent to the Udyr/Heca comments, but wouldnt it be a bit ignorant to say that the balance team has been hitting Heca and Udyr when the primary reason for their abuse is their clear speed and early/mid game. The Chemtank nerf was an offset at best as it buffed the slow and nerfed the speed. The Heca nerf of 10% was for late game rather than his early game. Games that go that late are already decided?
Another aspect I want to ask about is Orianna / Azir / Syndra. Why weren't compensation buffs given to Orianna like base armor/mr buffs so its less teamfight (pro) oriented so its solo q rate doesnt drop. Sigyetaeyeob a GM Orianna player and a lot of orianna players are unhappy with the solo q experience because of how bad she is this season.
Hecarim's E speed doesn't scale on rank. The scaling movement speed is just how E functions. It's an all-game change.
Hecarim's first nerf was to Q damage.
Kinda disingenuous to call any of those things "not clear speed"
Compensation buffs exist when you aren't trying to rapidly solve a pro play problem. Anything like that is automatically a larger project and one you have to keep up with. Yorick is a good example of this.
If your goal is to nerf a champion to lower its pro priority (Orianna, Udyr, Hecarim) you just nerf them. At some other point down the line they can stop to figure out if pros are just being change-averse (this happens a lot) or if there's actual fenagling that needs to happen, like with Azir or Ryze.
Total number of nerfs isn't as relevant as the effectiveness of them. I think the point you've indirectly made here is that the nerfs haven't been good enough and some responbility here lies on the balance team.
I've seen champs get f**king nuked when Riot wants the champ out of pro play. It's clear with the repeated love taps to both Udyr and Hec that Riot was at least complicit with or enjoyed having then around and didn't want to blast them out of pro play (or blast their soloq win rates).
No jungle meta has ever been amazing tbh, but this Udyr Hec meta needs a stronger hand from the balance team to force it out, and it's not like it isn't clear why they're so good, as you can see from the comments in this thread.
To be clear, there are two distinct things going on:
An Udyr nerf, with a follow up that seems to be giving a real decline to Udyr pick/banrate, to the point where I expect with no further changes, he'd be sub-80, which tends to be the cutoff point. Still, he had another small nerf in 11.7. The round 2 nerf probably could have come in sooner, though.
And Hecarim, who did not cross pro play thresholds until the 11.6 nerf, which was a pretty substantial 0-20 damage off of Q. That is generally not what you'd consider a love tap on a low cooldown primary damage ability.
I think my biggest problem, is finding champions that punish Udyr/Hec. There aren’t a lot of good scaling answers to them, Karthus can work but has a much higher risk factor. You can beat them early with Nid, but then risk falling off. I feel like we’re in a limbo where carry junglers don’t get the necessary resources and traditional utility junglers can’t keep up.
Champions that appear to do well against Hecarim: Ivern, Skarner, Dr. Mundo, Nunu, Volibear, Rek'Sai, Trundle, Jarvan. So, mostly champions who fill the role of beefy frontliners while likely being able to out-duel him.
Good against Udyr: Ivern, Lillia, Zac, Sejuani, Taliyah, Kindred, Mundo. So, champions who make it difficult for Udyr to get past them (CC from Ivern/Taliyah) or just kite exceptionally well (Lillia, Taliyah, Kindred).