Question, if Pyke mid is gone this patch could pyke support get this nerf reverted?
V10.14
Stats
Magic resistance growth reduced to 1.25 from 1.5.
Armor growth reduced to 3.5 from 5.
That's unrelated to the above, but if he ends up weak we can buff support in a way that won't impact mid. I'm unfamiliar with how we would do that, it's not my area of expertise.
100% uptime skirmishers are already broken in solo queue (read: every DD jungler, and jungle in general). this is a buff to all of them.
alternatively, burst mages (syndra, lux, zoe) won't be able to do what their kit is designed around. are you going to significantly lower their cooldowns?
I expect skirmishers to be stronger on release as well. We do anticipate a lot of the risks y'all do, and intend to follow-up quickly if it ends up being true.
For burst mages we will decide which ones need more damage (Zoe and Lux) vs more Rotations/cooldowns (Orianna Syndra) if they end up weak.
Why did you choose to do flat changes across the board as opposed to champ specific? Tanks already don't feel tanky and I don't think just giving them more health, armor, and mr are gonna fix that when the number of things that make stacking resistances meaningless are still there, even if they are getting nerfed slightly.
Also why is only Doran's Ring mana regen getting buffed? I feel like many tanks or other top lane champs could also use help with early mana regen without being forced into a suboptimal starting item.
Flat changes across the board are the easiest and "least biased" way to reduce damage in league. If we find afterwards that a class is being underserved, we can address their items/systems/champs specifically after.
Dorans ring is there because we found mana mages were the least likely to hit kill thresholds where champions have significantly more HP from level 1. It's possible tanks could use an adjustment to mana in the future if we find tanks follow the same trend.
I know all the armor/mr buffs are on a per level basis. Is there any consideration for giving all Champs just a flat base armor/mr? Like instead of the extra durability runes we get to slept from on our rune page could we not just give those to all Champs at lvl 1? +6 armor and +8 mr would help alot in the early game. Or would that make some champions in the jungle too safe?
The flat HP we are giving should cover the early-game case you're talking about. We considered flat durability stats but we found that we did not want to lower, say, the level 1 auto attack damage number significantly. If we gave bot laners 6 armor, that would run the risk of making early auto attacks really wimpy and not satisfying.
Read moreI don't believe this addresses the problem correctly.
The complaint is that there is too much damage in the game. A very, very large percent of that damage comes from the runes and item proc's.
You address this by giving everyone more durability.
It feels super bad as some of my favorite champs to be forced to wait for my runes + items to be ready in order to combo someone, instead of playing the champion and their kit. While it does provide extra interaction, i feel the scale is tipped way too far.
By adding extra durability, and not addressing any item / rune damage, all you do is force people to trade on cycles with their runes / items, and make abilities themselves even more meaningless without them.
Cool items are fun thematically, but when every item is adding 50-200 damage on my abilities BEFORE stats for scaling, it really feels like it doesn't matter what ability I level first, as long as I know what items i have.
This...
Our current assessment is that the proportion of in-kit damage to item/runes damage is not so far off that we'd target that for adjustments. We don't identify "in-kit power vs item system power" to be the leading problem with league in comparison to just overall time-to-kill.
Do you have any concerns about some damage dealing oriented champions to start building too tanky? I REALLY don't want to go back to bruisers being built extremely tanky and replacing actual tanks.
Our impression is that this is very unlikely, but we will be monitoring to see if the meta shifts that way and would react.
Any planned changes for corrupting potion? Bonus defensive stats early feels like a huge buff to corrupting potion which was already dominating pro midlane, since you get more effective hp from the healing to higher resistances and the bonus available mana seems stronger than just mana buffs to d ring.
No "plans" for anything related to items/champions/etc that are stronger/weaker due to the changes. With that said, we will be monitoring closely on live and reacting to what happens. If we "planned" to nerf Sunderer for example, we would have just done it pre-ship like some of the other systems we did. We recognize some items/systems are more likely to need follow-up and we are watching to see how they move.
Any plans for Divine Sunderer? Aside from across the board buffs, the main reason tanks have trouble atm is Divine Sunderer. There are some really weird synergy cases with champions that "shouldn't" be using them, like Camille for example. All the reasoning behind a Camille commiting with her E > killing or failing goes out the window when she can go in and out while not getting punished for it because of DS and Death's Dance.
No "plans" for anything related to items/champions/etc that are stronger/weaker due to the changes. With that said, we will be monitoring closely on live and reacting to what happens. If we "planned" to nerf Sunderer for example, we would have just done it pre-ship like some of the other systems we did. We recognize some items/systems are more likely to need follow-up and we are watching to see how they move.
Do you think tanks will be relatively nerfed by this as they gain much less % durability?
The math works out where they gain less % durability but more raw durability due to armor/mr multiplying on HP and vice versa. We found that flat durability was more valuable than % durability in a decent number of cases.
- How is this going to affect champions like Ivern and Yorick with their ults?
- I didn't get a full sense of the answer by reading the Gameplay Thoughts so I wonder how this is impacting champions with shielding or shields? If you lower healing and up survivability is that an immediate buff to enchanters or tanks with Shields (Nautilus, Tahm Kench etc)?
- Partially to do with the above, but how would this then affect itemization for said enchanters with heal/shielding power, and does this also mean nerfing champions with healing abilities (Senna, Kayle, Nidalee, Sona, and so on)
This seems like a wide scope project that could potentially be even wider scope and unintentionally buff enchanters to the moon if they aren't addressed (this coming from a support that doesn't want tank supports and the like to be booted out because Shields become king again)
No effect currently on pets
Practically all in-kit heals/shields are nerfed in one way or another. That means all heal/shield abilities
> Assassins drop in winrate
> Riot buffs them to overwrite these changes
> The cycle begins anew
One of the things we did that isn't part of the patch is we spent time aligning on what good looks like for various classes.
For Assassins specifically - I think it is very likely they will be less powerful and we need to buff them (though that'll be followup, not pre-buffs).
In general, we are comfortable with burst characters killing their targets very quickly - the problem we're solving right now is that many of them can do it while building bruiser items and getting too durable, or without needing to pass any key skill tests, and sometimes even without having to commit their full kit (we don't want Zed killing an ADC with just QWE+AA when they're on even gold), and that too many characters who have other strengths are also able to one-round a squishy champion without giving anything up.
If we need to buff Assassins just by win rate, we'd first check to make sure they can secure kills on squishy targets when they're building burst damage items (l...
Read moreWaffles are far better as a consumer however pancakes take a fraction of the time
The most rational answer I’ve ever seen to this.
A Rioter posted on the other thread that they already have a 12.10b micropatch planned.
They know some shit will be busted in both directions, but they don't know who exactly, and by how much, so they don't wanna pre-nerf.
The team does a great job of trying to understand and predict all second and third order impacts from changes like this. That said we only have 200 years of experience, so we won’t get everything right. Trust we’ll correct where we need to.
hopefully this means we wont get an incident like vayne or kayle at 55%~60% wr for an entire patch(es)
If there’s anything that’s clearly an outlier you can trust that we’ll be monitoring and adjusting where we need to.
Will my tank karma thrive more in 12.10
Only yours. We'll be searching for player tags
Hot take: Early-game durability is actually fine, and there's no need to increase base HP or resistances. But buffs to HP/Armor/MR per level is definitely welcomed. Most "uninteractive" one-shots don't happen until major damage powerspikes, such as level 6+ or after first completed item.
A goal of the changes was to reduce the effectiveness of all-ins from full HP that are slightly too viable in side lanes on live.
How the hell is Soraka or Sona going to be balanced after this.
They are nerfed in the healing department
What are your thoughts on the viability of burst mages after this? AP values are at the lowest they have been in the history of league. With this update, void staff is getting a nerf on top of every champion gaining a ton of durability against magic burst.
The void staff adjustment should be net neutral ( or even slightly more buffed compared to live). With that said, burst mages are on our radar for post launch
Read moreAre you going to take this chance for sweeping change to do any standardization of Health/AR/MR Values across classes?
The difference between two champions in the same class can be absolutely massive:e.g. Zac and Nunu are both AP primarily Jungle Tanks who's "tank" steroid ability is their healing, but Zac has 400 more base health than Nunu at level 18. (tldr please nerf zac)
Phreak made an interesting series of videos about Base Stats and the Physical Damage/Magic Damage durability skew of various champions a few years back and I rather like his idea of standardizing AR/MR base values and growths for different broad classes, for example:
Light Durability (adcs, enchanters artillery mages)
Medium Durability (melee fighters and battle mages)
Heavy Durability (tanks and juggernauts)
And then using base health vs health growth (the most visible and readable tank stat) as the balancing lever for whether someone is tanky early or tanky late....
Standardizing base stats really limits us in where else we can put durability. For example, lillia has near 0 Hp regen because of her passive healing. This isn’t possible if base stats are standardized
Why buff health instead of nerfing damage
Way more direct path this way. If we took on decreasing damage there would be a ton of different angles to attack from, making it much harder to ship. I think that’s in the article
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