League of Legends

League of Legends Dev Tracker




14 May

Comment

Originally posted by putsandstock

344 is actually not really enough for effects of this size. A 95% confidence interval for the win rate (assuming the “true value” is reasonably close to 50%) is about 2/sqrt(n) wide (using some basic repeated Bernoulli trials as the underlying model), over 10% for this sample size, which in isolation is terrible. People in general tend to underestimate variance and overestimate how good a sample size is, so it’s important to at least come up with some sort of statistical basis behind claims that a sample seems “large enough.”

You can definitely argue that in this case we have other (much more statistically significant!) supporting data, such as extrapolation from win rates and trends in other Elos, which will strongly affect our priors on the topic in question (so perhaps a 95% interval is overkill, and we’d be satisfied with a much weaker level). But taken by itself, a sample size of 344 is not nearly enough to measure effects whose size is <5%.

Thank you for this. It's been so long since I did any real hypothesis testing that I've forgotten all rules of thumb for confidence intervals and such.

Intuitively, I really tried to only use samples with at least 1,000 games. That's less than ~6% wr change 95% of the time, which is somewhat reasonable as long as you're not trying to take small movements as telling.

Comment

Originally posted by Drathyyy

Thank you for updating us :) I really appreciate it. Is there ever a chance of doing timed watched drops? Overwatch League, for example, has drops based on how long you’ve watched. Which I think feels good watching because you know you’re gonna get a spray or some tokens.

Thank you again :)

Oh, nice idea! We have watch rewards for that in most cases, but I love the idea of some drops specifically designed for the super fans who have watched a lot. Thanks for the suggestion! Also, YW!

Comment

Hey Reddit! As we head into the second half of MSI, I wanted to share some info with you all! We did a ton of small, rare drops in the first 6 days of the tournament where we dropped some Morgana bundles, some Hextech Chests & Keys, some Champion shards, a few lolesports.com exclusive icons and emotes, and some Bose sweepstakes entries for the US (Use those entries! The prizes are pretty sweet, and I cannot get any since I work here, so go get 'em!). In all that, we also dropped a small number of the 2021 Exclusive Icons and Emotes (Karma Mains Rejoice!) and there are many, many more on the way! We've been watching the feedback and know some of you are annoyed at not getting a drop, or getting a drop of something you already had. On not getting a drop, we're ramping up our un-capped, everyone-gets-it drops as we get into the end of MSI, and we're going to be dropping all of the 2021 exclusives we said we would, so keep watching! As you might have noticed in other events (LEC, LLA, ...

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Comment

Originally posted by Insanity_Incarnate

Can confirm, I'm not good at League of Legends.

Hahahaha <3

Comment

Originally posted by Fedacking

Quick question thought: other junglers (in particular Rek Sai for this case) provide better winrate in masters+ and have better azir curves. Shouldn't they be played in jungle and lee sin not be picked?

I think Rek'Sai is likely an underpicked jungler.

Comment

Originally posted by MrCrazyVenom

Is there a reason u focused on mid lee sin instead of top lee sin?

So far at MSI by my calculations there have been 12 lee sin picks with most (7/12) going top lane. Now I'm sold that jungle lee can be better than mid lee. However why aren't you focusing on comparing top lee sin to jungle lee sin?

I touched on this in the video, I'm pretty sure but Lee Sin top has the exact same issue as with mid.

Comment

Originally posted by [deleted]

[deleted]

Headshot stack do not fall off outside of combat. Caitlyn is thus constantly somewhere between 0-5 stack of headshot in any given teamfight. Thus, any team fight with only two auto attacks automatically supports +AD.

The math is equivalent. Neither AS nor AD favors Headshot damage output.

This would change if Headshots fell off outside of combat (e.g. Master Yi passive, Kraken Slayer) but they don't.

Comment

Originally posted by AfrikanCorpse

So, every single non-subjective form of proof is on my side. And on the other is... The opinion of someone who didn't make playoffs.

Really?

If anyone can be right/wrong (according to your video), regardless of their level of play, why are you discrediting someone's opinion because they didn't make playoffs?

Incredibly hypocritical.

E: props for the edit

Yeah, you're right, it's a cheap shot.

Comment

Originally posted by HuntedWolf

Slightly off topic, which website do you use for your data Phreak?

lolalytics. Lets me do a lot more item and rune delving, plus has more back patches.

Comment

Originally posted by DommyLoL

LAst season i went warmogs first after jg item. But that was when jg item increases hp by 20% and right now thornmail is just the best item in the game for tanks with all this excessive healing.

coo thx for the info mate


13 May

Comment

Originally posted by bobbybobsen

/u/PhreakRiot Good video, and good to see you explain yourself in a better format than twitter. However you missed the mark on Lillia: Lillia did in fact get a nerf - in patch 11.6 her ult CD was increased by 20 seconds at all levels, and this nerf lines up with her decline in pro play.

That's a good point and one I overlooked.

Comment

Originally posted by RiceOnAStick

That point was just an aside/additional note as to why the data might not be relevant. Rumble as a champion is disproportionately strong early (especially midlane) because of his ability to fight anyone pre-6 and tilt 2v2s in his favor. Because Korean soloq has a tendency to FF, early game champions are more advantaged there. You can frequently see this difference in stats sites; op.gg almost always rates champs very differently than how lolalytics/u.gg tier them with their global statistics.

He's not excluding Korea's winrates from the calculation; his initial argument was based around global winrates which obviously include Korea. He's talking about why using Korean soloq as the statistical model alone could be problematic.

At least from my understanding.

That's more or less accurate. Though unless I mistyped above, Rumble jungle is actually more early-game skewed. In other words, Rumble jungle falls off faster and harder than Rumble mid. So any server where players FF early is biased toward making Rumble look good.

In general, yes, there are lots of factors that keep solo queue from looking just like pro play. Some of them are server behavior. But we can softly cover many of them by grabbing data globally and comparing the skill levels of players and seeing if that gives us any results. Azir is our poster-child here.

Comment

Originally posted by Cahecher

My point wasn't to select the data that suits me, but rather to point out that there are obvious regional differences, that are core to the conversation at hand.

Another thing, the data we are looking at is very different. For example, if we look at the data filtered by korean server from u.gg (my filters: vs all champions, soloq, 11.9, KR):

11.9.

  • P+. Jungle w/r: 48,86, games: 47k. Midlane w/r 51.55%, games: 15.5k. W/r diff 2.69

  • D+ Jungle w/r: 49.99, games: 11.2k. Midlane w/r 51.8%, games: 3.2k. W/r diff 1.81

  • D2+ Jungle w/r: 51.05, games: 5.6k. Midlane w/r 52.58%, games: 1.3k. W/r diff 1.53

  • M+ Jungle w/r: 51.07, games: 2.5k. Midlane w/r 52.03%, games: 0.5k. W/r diff 0.96 (though it is an anomaly, the number of games is too low)

I didn't use 11.10 in the reply even though the numbers there strongly support my point, but the amount of games is insignificant since the patch is too...

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I appreciate the nuance added. I was using lolalytics.com for most of my info since it has a very convenient 30-day filter to grab lots of information any time you're looking at a more unpopular pick or more constrained brackets.

Comment

Originally posted by DommyLoL

Sunfire --> Thornmail --> Abyssal Mask is the way to go 99% of the time ( And Plated steelcaps 99% of the time)

oh wild you don't get an early warmogs? I feel like I remember that being a thing KR junglers did awhile ago for Sej

Comment

Originally posted by Rogue009

Sorry but how is 49 games a large enough sample size? For all we know half the losses on those could have been due to autofilled people.

That's exactly my point.

Comment

Originally posted by Jinxzy

I have no doubt that Rumble junglers are relatively inexperienced. But unless I see an Azir curve, I'm not buying it.

Hey Phreak, on somewhat the same topic:

In your Lee Sin example, you show Jungle/Mid winrate differential favoring jungle the higher the Elo. Could one not make the argument that this is because Lee does have an "Azir curve", in both mid & jungle, but it's significantly more prominent in jungle because junglers (especially high level) has years of experience on this champ, where all the solo laners are only just picking it up?

My hypothesis is somewhat contrary to that. I just looked up Lee Jungle and Lee mid as stand-alone picks and jungle has an Azir curve while mid has a very slight Garen curve. (it's pretty flat, all within 1%, but still trending down)

To be direct about the hypothesis, though: I expect Azir curves to be pronounced on any new champion (or new in role). Higher MMR players play more games thus are on average more practiced thus on average are less hampered by being mechanically bad at the champion. Admittedly, this is somewhat of a stretch since we're measuring several different things (hands, brain, coordination, etc.) through the same thing. But the end result is still ultimately the same from what I can see so far.

Comment

Why is there a team from my hometown in MSI lol.

This is some bogan sh*t. I love it.

Comment

Originally posted by Least_Candle5223

Except what statistics you choose to look at, and how you gather statistics is a system of bias. My sisters PHD is literally about how Big Data skews people’s perspective because they perceive statistics as objective truth. I feel like he’s doing something similar here where he makes stats seem like an objective truth.

That's a really valid point. There are a ton of champions I looked up and prepped graphics for that didn't fit the script purely for length than anything else. Malphite and Sion both have Garen curves and very low pro win rates. That said, I don't put a lot of faith in +/-5% pro win rates and even if they're true, there are good explanations.

I'll say that Azir and Garen were the first champions I looked up and didn't know their data for certain before collection. I also didn't know what I expected from Lillia when I gathered it.