In our minds, there are exactly two things we HAVE to do to win back trust on this issue:
1) Ship product changes and features that make a positive difference and meaningfully address game-ruining behavior (or that at least result in forward momentum on the issue)
2) Communicate regularly about those product changes and features
For the reasons above, we're committing to monthly updates on "game-ruining behavior" for the foreseeable future.
Nice to hear, I wouldn’t enjoy getting banned just for playing stuff that might not be meta at that given time. But as long as there are options like asking the support to revert a ban or so ( is that how it works? ), I wouldn’t mind getting falsely banned once or twice if that leads to less inting long term.
Yeah, we'd certainly want to keep some form of appeals process. Wouldn't want to rely really heavily on it though, results in both a sh*tty experience for incorrectly banned players even if things do get reversed and player support being slower to respond on other things if they're working through a huge pile of incorrect penalties. Some rate of incorrect penalties seems reasonable, don't want to rely on mitigation like player support intervention too much though.
Out of curiosity, did you guys start prioritizing player behavior changes before Voyboy's video, since Brightmoon noted that that was one of the big trends that really ruined the ranked experience for players earlier this season
Some of this work has been underway for a while, as per Brightmoon's video and an Ask Riot response a couple of months ago. Plus, much as I wish we could, doing things like improving how notifications work is something that takes a lot longer than a few days.
Having said that the recent discussion has also served as a catalyst for us to prioritize work we'd planned to do someday sooner. Better detection was on our roadmap for later in the year, after talking a lot about the issue and reading all the discussion we realized it was something we needed to accelerate a lot, moving other work out of the way where needed to get started on it sooner.
Is it?
If someone says "I am mid I don't give a f**k" and you report, what will it do? As far as I can tell the only stuff that gets punished right now is whatever is on Riot's "no no words" list.
We do penalize for a range of behaviors, not just use of language other players find offensive in chat. Can understand the skepticism on that. Hopefully the changes to report notifications we're just rolling out at present will help give better visibility and understanding of what's actually being dealt with how.
Quick mention: Chat restriction as a form of punishment is extremely counter productive.
Chat restrictions aren't something we're looking at as a response to inting/afking. Removing chat when the problem is chat behavior makes sense. When the issue is in game actions though other approaches are needed.
Hey Meddler do you have an ETA patch on when champ select reporting is going live
As per the post late Q2's our best estimate at present, so sometime in June if I had to try and guess a more specific period.
Will there be extra measures taken to not false flag Janna players as afks?
So I know there's some trolling/joking about Janna play here. At the same time though it's true that detection needs to take context into account. Power farming jungle and not ganking? Sometimes appropriate for certain junglers, almost always inappropriate from a laner stealing everything from their jungler and not contributing. Being significantly behind everyone else on levels and spending a lot of time not farming? Can be perfectly normal for support play, warning flag for some solo laners though not all etc etc.
I just hope this lasts longer than 1 week and that they dont give up
Can understand the skepticism, given this has been a long running issue. The commitment to talking monthly is meant to help both give you folks ongoing visibility into what we're doing and give you an avenue to hold us accountable if progress isn't happening.
Abused how? Shouldn’t it only punish people that announce they‘ll troll ( and seriously, there are a lot of them ) in Champ select instead of those that pick unusual champs?
That's our intent certainly. The risk of incorrectly flagging people who aren't trolling is why we're starting with a data gathering phase and then, once we've got a large enough sample size and confidence we're distinguishing trolling from unusual behavior, turning on penalties a bit later.
Honestly, I think the improved report feedback is probably the most important change. Finally getting visibility on the impact of your reports is huge for the perception that the system actually do its job.
We think it'll be impactful yeah, though not enough by itself. The way I'm currently thinking about this issue is there are three elements that all need to be working well:
The improved notifications should help a lot with #3 there. As per the original post our next focus is on better detection.
Cloud soul is underrated. People don't understand how valuable movement speed is... Riot nerfed Karthus by lowering his movespeed and now people are already not playing him. His winrate went down 3% from 5 movespeed.
You're the first I've seen even note that cloud soul has movement speed. The damage reduction on a skillshot you dodge (or enemy team collapse you escape) is 100%.
I think one thing that could help is more "medium length" bans.
Why does the punishment system go from warning/chat restriction to 14 day ban? There should be medium length bans like 3 or 7 days that are used liberally. If you accidentally ban someone for 3 days then atleast it's of shorter length.
People don't care about chat restrictions and 14 day bans are actually super hard to get usually (for a good reason). Players not being able to play league because of their behavior is sometimes the best deterannt.
Edit: /u/purpleadlib pointed out a ranked ban would be a less severe type of medium ban, and I like that idea as well.
There needs to be at least something between chat restriction and 14 day ban that is used heavily.
That's a fair call out, will make sure it's one of the things we discuss again.
It would feel so incredibly shitty to be banned for 14 days because you started off having a bad game which snowballed into you dying 12 times because you were dove under tower every minute.
Be careful please!
Yep, that's the sort of thing that makes this tricky. It means we can't simply penalize off KDA in a single game for example, just doesn't give enough context. Incorporating a lot more sources of information (multiple games, when in the games deaths occurred, odd behavior like avoiding all teamfights/objectives, etc) should give better accuracy. Still leaves the question of what rate of incorrect penalties is appropriate though hence the interest in hearing people's thoughts on that. It's probably one of those things that also varies meaningfully by MMR, region and other contexts too.
Read moreIt’s not about people who are genuinely trying and having a bad game or series of games even. Sometimes someone gets absolutely crushed in lane and dies over and over again. That’s very different to a player deciding the game’s over and then spending their time trolling others instead of trying to win.
A lot of people tend to have trouble with this. Most people are quick to jump the gun for anyone going 0/1/0 that they're trolling (I've seen it on stream a lot too)
Streamers often get targeted for this sort of trolling due to their higher profile. It’s not an issue unique to streamers, though.
Though this honestly seems like they're trying to move past the conversation about how streamers have a part in this issue.
Short Term - Champ Select Reporting and Muting
Well finally this should hopefully help out people stuck in champ select. Though I worry it'll be super...
Streamers wise - definitely not trying to move conversation away from both how streamers get affected by trolling and trolling can be influenced by streamers. Did want to be clear though that we're interested in the wider impact, in addition to how high profile players get affected.
Appreciate Riv for chiming in on this. The folks on the dev team all saw Voy's video and, frankly, we think the issue he's raising here is important enough to merit a longer conversation—not just "we hear you" and then silence. Meddler is gonna kick off that conversation with his Friday "Quick LoL Thoughts" post and then we'll take it from there.
devtrackers.gg