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[deleted]
get out of here with your client talk, this is a MTG thread
[deleted]
get out of here with your client talk, this is a MTG thread
SOME SETBACKS
Affinity was broken. At some point during 2018, Affinity was inadvertently broken. Since Affinity isn't working properly, the client is defaulting to loading every single plugin during bootstrap and postgame loads.
In the bigger picture this discovery isn't a setback but rather a huge success, considering the whole point of this campaign is to fix issues. Especially when it's a tool that's been literally broken for 2 years.
Yep. It's simultaneously humbling and a validation of our approach (dig deep to discover root causes)
Diffrent question, why client wasn't written using something like Qt which is a lot faster and doesnt' have more development cost then something like electron/CEF?
When picking your tech stack you got to consider other operational concerns, like:
I wouldn't be able to tell you how well those were assessed when the decision to go with a web stack was made, I wasn't there. I do know QT/C++ was an option being talked about.
I dont mean to sound judgemental but how is it possible that the new client that was literally made not to have the same issues as the old one, has the same issues as the old one?
A fair question. The symptoms the client has today are similar, or the same, to the ones the old client had. However, the problems with the client today are not the same problems that the old client had. The root causes are different. So, even though we didn't repeat the mistakes of the past; other mistakes were done that lead us here.
Just wondering, is it the same team that rebuilt the client, that is now trying to fix it or is there no overlap?
The group of people that initially designed the client architecture is not the same that ended up building it and re-architecting it along the way (~2016). Ownership was then transfered to a few other teams (~2017), those still maintain it today. There was a small team that improved a lot of things, nothing visible to players, tools and code re-org (2018). The new client team is a new group of people, it came together late (2019). There is some overlap, some people were part of the different projects on and off. Most of the people that worked on it in 2016 is gone now.
Of course Affinity was broken! Pretty much Turn 1 wins. Standard back in Mirrodin days never stood a chance.
hahaha I appreciate the joke, I still have my affinity deck. I even splurged on foil cranial platings.
/u/RiotScruffy are you guys mostly leaning towards systems changes for nerfing and buffing mid and bot respectively or are you guys looking at individual champ changes as well
Mostly systems (items, gold, xp). If we did champ changes it would be standardized across the class.
Items with passives that have a cooldown (Banhee's Veil, Edge of Night, Steraks Gage) are still in their normal cooldowns. Can you bring them to URF values like Active items?
The way passive item cooldowns work under the hood makes it much harder to apply CDR to them than active items.
Having said that, I think it would be a cool space to explore sometime in the future.
Wish GP could stack up Silver Serpents faster. Even with barrel spam it still takes a while, usually games are over already by the time you get 1 ult upgrade. One of the few scaling elements in the game that isn't tied to items or levels.
This is a good callout, thank you!
CEF Is indeed a great framework. Ember on the other hand...
Ember is great too! However, no JS framework could have saved us from the architecture choices we made.
They tried to make a balloon dog but instead of using the long balloons Riot tried to use the ones that are only globes (🎈). You can imagine how inneficient this would end even though the globe and the loong balloons have been a proven thing to be used many times before they tried to do this
haha sort of haha
Sort of.
"Bloat" in this case can be referred to either as inefficient code (too many lines, takes too long to read, etc.) Or there were simply too many JS scripts to handle.
exactly, each plugin is its own script, over 100 plugins/scripts :(
I think that if you guys succeed in fixing the client while communicating the process behind it you can get some trust points back with the community but the reality is that this specific subject is one of the most controversial ones ingrained here and people don't have much hope left. I still think that this is the correct approach but you guys shouldn't hope for positive reactions until problems start to get fixed. Keep the good work little cactus octopus man.
100% agreed, I think it'd be nuts to expect an overwhelmingly positive reaction to any update that's fully honest about challenges without meaningful improvements to show.
Many (most?) people care much more about product changes than transparency about problems.
But the idea is that—since we are confident we're going to be able to make those meaningful improvements given enough time—anybody who goes on this journey with us is going to have a deeper understanding at the end of it.
The payoff will be at the end.
A (hopefully) objective TL;DR
* A small number of the plugins and apps were removed from the client to help load times (10-20%)
* Boot times were improving until 10.3. It is suspected server strain from increased use due to.... you know... is partially to blame. Server capacity is being scaled up, which should help.
* Affinity, a tool to help reduce plugins loaded on startup, was discovered in this client review to be broken since 2018.
* Fixing Affinity is not going to address these issues, and will need to be replaced in the client.
* Client fix plans are being changed to implement something other than Affinity, which will slow down the road map.
Solid summary
Y'all say you want more transparent comms, so get ready for the new strat where we talk about the sh*t that sucks as well as the good stuff.
To use a film metaphor, right now we're in Act 2, which is the part where Luke and his friends get caught in a dumpster and nearly get crushed to death
I think the bare-all approach will pay off in Act 3
I'll battle in his place.
spins around glaring
I’LL DEAL WITH YOU NEXT
He called you out bro, now you have to 1v1 him on howling abyss to assert you dominance.
I’m down.
1v1, no recalls, first blood or first to 100 farm (coward’s victory), Garen only, Howling Abyss.
Do you have the guts, u/RemarkablyAverage7 ? Or should I go blast one of the other 6 RemarkablyAverage players instead?
I say we stream it for the good people of this community, too.