Read moreI wonder how much of it is actually 'its too complicated/there's information overload' because of the way the system actually works, and how much is simply how overly verbose the prayer's tooltip is. For example, we look at current Redemption, and it just says 'Heals you when damaged and health falls below 10%.'
The pitched Seren prayer Harmonize, which rewards players hitting together on the same tick, says stuff about applying a whole new status effect, and while that may be the way 'under the hood' to get the game to behave and actually apply that prayer's effect, us players are going to immediately think of other MMOs where maintaining a status effect is an active part of the gameplay. So instead, wording it as something more like:
- + X% Attack when your attack lands at the same time as an ally
It's simple, to the point, we don't need to know about the existence of 'Vulnerability' as a status, we just need to know 'if we hit at the same time ...
I think your 2p are spot on mate. We're looking into ways of rewording things and ditching the "keywords."
I do worry that if we go as vague as redemption, people may complain. And for decent reason, arguably redemption is obtuse and players should not need the wiki to know exactly how it works. I don't personally find the relationship with the wiki harmful, but I do see the point.
If we do that for these prayers, it might exacerbate those existing concerns. That said, your fundamental point about Harmony (and strike balance by extent) is spot on.
Someone will be the first ever to stand on certain tiles, yall better start claiming your tiles.
I’ve already stepped on them all
oh god yes
Will need a really solid beta period before anything like this passes realistically
I want to make sure there is a solid Beta period for this, hence why we've said if we need to push these until after WGS launches then we're open to that level of flexibility.
I think you guys are handling these changes with the care they deserve. Just from reddit alone, you had people saying the suggested new prayers would have next to no impact, to others calling this the next EoC. Striking balance here is very difficult, and I think splitting up the pitches and reducing the new prayers by 1 per god will make this much simpler for the community to digest and correctly understand their impacts.
Agreed, I said so in another comment, but information overload is a geunine concern and something that we need to be more aware of.
I’m not sure dropping down to 3 prayers per alignment is necessarily the answer, we just don’t want to have an extra layer of prayer flicks and convoluted prayers released. If removing one helps with that then fair enough though
I agree it's not 'the answer' but I think it will help make sure the Prayers have clear impact that sits alongside the current system without overloading you with too many new things at once. Information overload is a genuine concern, something we need to balance.
Understood, is there any sort of gameplan for how the new prayers will be reworked? (Eg: making them unique buffs similar to smite or retribution rather than just dmg % increases)
I don't want to go into any specifics as that wouldn't be fair to the devs working on the changes or to you as we want to make sure they have the time to review the feedback seen and adjust them accordingly.
Okay, I'll say it. You guys should've just released Ruinous Powers with DT2. Now you're just spinning your wheels because the same people who didn't want Ruinous Powers will NEVER want God Alignments.
I think this is slightly different than the OG Ruinous Powers and we've already taken the learnings from that to get here. We're going to continue to lean on the feedback of the community to ensure we get it right, rather than because we can.
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It's not cancelled, we saw a significant amounf of feedback from across all different platforms and we're going to look at our designs with that in mind as it was very valid, constructive feedback.
Since i saw some posts about it in the community, what're your thoughts on introducing 2-3 initial prayers and having a 3rd-4th prayer come from a boss type monster once you've unlocked the alignment? (Eg get 2-3 balance prayers when finishing while guthix sleeps, then unlock the final one by killing tormented demons, could be a tradable or untradable drop)
Edit: to go more off of this, that way you could even focus on adding lower req prayers and then hone in and craft a great extra reward prayer.
I don't think we're against that idea, but for now we are just going to focus on the initial Prayers and how they work with the game and current gameplay of Prayers.
Why don’t you just actually put in the work to fix the shitty course design of Polly/Prif then?
I don’t stick with Seers over Polly/Prif because of xp rates, I do it because I can click the entire course without rotating my camera or clicking twice between steps.
My response to another player:
"I don't think it's unreasonable that we could touch up the layout/interactions of some of the courses as part of this project.
The course just feeling bad to do (from a gameplay perspective) is very different to it feeling bad to do because of the xp rates."
Read moreI doubt you'll see this comment but thats Okay! the write up is really nice but to touch on your questions:
- Are slow skills the problem? Or are boring skills the problem?
Yes and No. if a skill is slow, generally there would be a trade off whether its higher yield in GP/HR, resources, whatever. the problem is when the skill is slow, theres no alternatives to do in the skilling method, and the pay off is just as bad, why would I as a player do something that I don't enjoy if skill X is slow, tedious, and has a terrible pay off that's just not fun, nor a good use of time.- Is Construction a good skill because it's fast?
this is a double edged sword. Construction is fantastic for the QOL it brings to a player, is it a good skill? not really. you're either stuck doing specific facets of construction, or Mahogany homes, and making 67000 mahogany tables isn't enjoyable, nor good for the wrists. and mahogany homes is just tedious.- Is Slayer a bad...
I did see the comment!
Your thought process is generally consistent with mine and it's why I posed those questions at the bottom of my ramble.
I think that looking at a skill's xp rates in a vacuum without considering other metrics is not a good way to evaluate whether or not a skill is good.
One thing I believe the team has to consider is that the reality is that Seers is also just the easiest course to run. Both on mobile and desktop, it requires no camera turns and is very easy to click the boxes. Even with boosted rates Seers is a lot easier to complete for hours than Poll or Relekka, so for it to be the course that sees a small nerf just doesn't feel good
I don't think it's unreasonable that we could touch up the layout/interactions of some of the courses as part of this project.
The course just feeling bad to do (from a gameplay perspective) is very different to it feeling bad to do because of the xp rates.
So now I have to level construction to make house tabs and move my home to Pollniveach (which requires me to schlep out there to even do) so that I can get a 12min total benefit to my agility grind from 60-75 from the current meta of staying at seers through 75? You do see how that’s a general nerf to agility training as it currently exists right?
The addition of a diary locked teleport similar to seers would inevitably make these locations easier to get to. Or were you specifically talking about getting to these courses before the proposed diary reward is unlocked?
I appreciate the transparency, but I feel like reducing the exp/hr just doesn't make sense and it's always going to draw ire from the community (buffs are better than nerfs). I feel as if a better solution to "why would I go to polliv over kandarin when the difference is only 1k exp per hour" should be addressed by adding the same scaling marks to the diary like kandarin has. If polliv is better marks and better exp per hour, then it's strictly better to head out to the desert.
Perhaps there's concerns with the price of amylase, but if we're also discussing amylase coming from more agility courses and also brimhaven, this wouldn't have more of an effect than those?
I don't dislike the idea of looking at the marks of grace a course gives as another balancing metric as a potential solution. I'd need to think on it some more and actually dig out some numbers before coming to any real conclusions though.
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