Ahskance

The common refrain is that a CV's existence forces other ships to hide and not claim space. Actual gameplay bears that out as not true. Map positions are claimed in Random Battles, Ranked Battles, Clan Battles, and more.

The thing that needs to be remembered is that a common Game Design axiom is that a player or team should always have insufficient resources to cover all situations. This forces the player or players to make the best decisions they can while using the resources they have access to. While CVs add a new threat which demands a different resource use, they do not stop the game from functioning just because they add a different type of theat.

The more you play CVs, the more you'll see players disengage and fold back into cover provided by teammate positioning. Or simply position relative to teammates in the first place to harden up.

The internet meme is that folks have to clump in groups of 10 to pray that the scary CV player loses planes, but only 2 ships are needed to incur sustained plane attrition (outside of ships with a notable weakness in their AA capabilities). 3 ships can be considered a "Hard Target"

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Note: Do understand that highly talented players will be happy to show you how talented they are. They can circumvent situations which would cripple or disable or players, but the vast majority operate at a standard skill level and the 2-3 ships rule holds consistent.

There are two ways to look at Fighters. Most people will think only in terms of the first because it's the most straightforward.

1) Fighters kill Planes.
a) This is nice when it works, but as you point out above a CV player can simply recall when they've been tagged by fighters and avoid the plane loss. So this isn't a guaranteed situation.
b) As a result of A being uncertain, many folks decry Fighters are worthless. They cannot "enforce plane loss". Time is burned forcing the recall and flight back out, however.

2) Fighters Block Attack Lines.
a) If you were to make a "heatmap" of the Aerial Space. You could see hard red for high continuous and other colors representing lesser Continuous damage or flak saturation. On this "heat map" you can see a Fighter as an island or "hard terrain" which has a health loss penalty to move/strike through. In this way, you can reinterpret Fighters as "Islands" for the sky. While CVs can ...

Glad I could be helpful!

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The title of this thread is "WG intends to dismiss any talk of IBT and Reduced Service Costs" so I'm here to talk IBT and Reduced Service Costs~

If there's any information I can share to be helpful, great!

And if there's something I can learn while I'm here, great!

I just ran a Co-Op game in a Pommern (because this ship rocks <3) as a test case.

I have a 20% reduction via Permacamo, 10% reduction via Flag, and 15% reduction via Clan Battle.

For the purposes of this discussion, the 10% reduction from the flag is only 4,500 credits, as the Service Cost baseline is 45,000 for the Pommern in Co-Op. In randoms, it would be 60,000.

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Over 1,000 games using 1,000 -10% flags, it would yield 9 million credits. The issue isn't that the flag would save you credits, it's that the flags were being sold for more than that value. It was a net loss to the player if they purchased the flag because Service Costs were altered down in the past and the flag became less relevant.

While you might say the answer would be, "Well, sell them for less than they save the player?" But that just means players should always buy said fla...

In this instance, you might want to be using a Tier 8 or 9 Premium instead for credit earning.

Premium's have a bonus to Credits Earned whereas Tier X Special Ships do not. The majority of their credit saves/bonus earnings is from the base +90,000 that is saved automatically with the innately reduced service cost. The Permacamo reduces that further (45,000 more credits) while giving an additive +20% to credits, so you have effectively 75% off Service Cost as your starting point with a small edge over base earning.

Why is this important? Co-Op having lower rewards has an even further reduced Service Cost (25% lower Service Cost as baseline), which means you're getting less out of your "source of savings". Also, you gain more credits when shooting uptier ships, as well as more credits from a built in credit modifier. The discussion regarding the Missouri was about her having over 65+% as her built-in modifier.

Yoshino in Randoms

50% Permacamo + 10% Flag + 15% Clan Bonus = 75% Reduction

90,000 x .25 = 22,500

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Each reduction is additive, which means the -10% Flag in this case only "saved" 9,000 credits.

So that's not how the flag works!

All the Service Cost reductions are additive, not multiplicative.

A normal Tier 10 having a 180,000 Service Cost recieves a flat 10% off (18,000 credits) which is unaffected by anything else.

A Premium Tier 10 ("Special Ship") has innately reduced Service Costs which are "set to a new normal". So it might be 90,000 credits/match for the cost. As the -10% flag is additive, that means you get 9,000 credits reduced, which sucks~ That would be a poor use of the flag compared to having it matter more elsewhere.

Ideally you would only use the -10% flags on the non-premium, high tier ships as that's where you would get the most impact.

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To extrapolate off your example above:

90,000 C/match "Special" Tier X
-45,000 Credits from -50% Permacamo
-9,000 Credits from -10% Flag
-13,500 Credits from -15% Clan Bonus
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So Bearn fighters are special. They have a 100 second run time. Other Fighters only have 60 seconds.

So this is a help, and a hindrance...

Help) Having longer run time means being able to drop a Fighter and go do something else. You do't have to "babysit" the same spot in 60 seconds from now... you have time before returning.
Hindrance) The additional time means the Fighter stays there past when the Friendly that was using it leaves the area and prevents you from dropping the next :\ So that can suck.

Let's talk about Fighter Skills:

First, Interceptor. Yes or No? Answer: Yes. -- Why? Bearn Fighters only have 2km "vision", so if they're aren't on top of something, they aren't spotting it. Taking Interceptor removes that 2km vision and gives you a 10% increase in Patrol Radius. Also, you only kill Player Planes, not Fighter consumables. That's how you de-plane a CV (if you force them to take a...

That was in my reply.

Why wouldn't I give the advice that has the way to deal with/correct the problem?

So, a quick story from an old job~

I used to work at a Movie Theater, and one day after we closed, I forgot to put away the "Drink Display" which was some 20oz bottles of Powerade and whatever. It was like 9 bottles each on 4 little displays. Probably $36 from a gas station :\

I was written up by my manager for leaving out over $150 in "assets", since Movie Theaters sell a $1 Powerade for $5. Which seems crazy, but in terms of accounting decisions is how they tally stuff :\

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Story over, why'd you say all that?

Because in-game assets for us have value. Yes, they're pixels in the end, but they are still items with actual value (from hundreds/thousands of man-hours) and have to be accounted for. Whenever codes or ships are given out on stream, there's an approval process for all of that, because these things have real-world value.

In this thread and another I've read earlier today, t...

Ah, I understand.

Worth noting that it's not a "permaspot" in that the DD or other ships can simply shoot the planes down. Also, the Battleship in question is unable to shoot its guns while the planes are engaged, so it's rare to see a hybrid player lingering to provide spotting for long durations of time.

...What?

Are you talking about ASW Planes?

They don't spot anything or deal damage to surface ships.

Because a few reasons:

1) This is a game with other players, and Co-Op is a place for Player vs AI. By definition, other players are expected to be in the game.

Why do I state this? Some Co-Op Mains here have mentioned they love when they get an all AI game, or just one or two other players. It gives them an experience where they can kill/farm a lot of enemies and end up with a close match.

however...

2) The servers are using resources with every individual Battle that exists.

Thus, having players grouped into appreciable amounts keeps the resource usage to sane/consistent levels. While 2 Destroyer Co-Op games mean less yolo-torping, it means those other 2 DDs would have to have their own other game since they couldn't fit in the first one (in this example).

While yes, this could be considered a win, it's also got its hard technical limitations/issues

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So, to put this in the context of the discussion...

Do you feel that not having a -10% service cost flag, which saves 18,000 credits/match on a Tech Tree non-premium Tier 10, makes the situation too hard to deal with?

Is a clan's -15% Service Cost reduction simply too low as a baseline to be a factor? If so, why is 10% on an expendable flag more impactful?

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As for me, I've run premium since the day I started playing, so my understanding of earning/reward structure is skewed. I've met fully free-to-play players that have many tier 10s, though.

Is this a Co-Op/PvE issue, perhaps? The lower rewards are insurmountable even with the 25% service cost reduction of Co-Op?

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To circle back to the beginning of this.

A player brought up the fact that buying the -10% Service Cost flag was actually costing more credits than it saved. With the revam...

I believe that does go away if you enable 2-factor authentication. The 2-factor authentication is used instead of the word scramble thing.

Expendable Camos are used in events and varied reward structures. While they might not be a thing to purchase in bulk, it doesn't mean they've disappeared forever.

You are missing the Clan discount, which can be as high as 15% off all Service Costs for established clans.

Please stop with this. I thought we spoke about this earlier.

The drop chances are clearly marked. Using the Mega Container as an example, there's a 16% chance to get a ship. That's the same for all folks, new and old alike.

There are not OP ships in this game... not like what you're probably thinking of. There are no ships in this game that auto-win, or can't lose. Even the ones people like to complain about are still seated decently enough in the game that she still functions well even dealing with the occasional outlier.

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The answer to your concern about not wanting to whale through a myriad of lower tier ships you don't want is... literally DON'T WHALE THROUGH SHIPS YOU DON'T WANT.

I am directly telling you, as I have said previously, just play the game. There are constant events that will reward you with new and existing premiums. You will slowly collect a variety of the lower tier things ...

What talk is there to dismiss?

It was pointed out by someone that the flags were attainable in the armory for more credits than they actually saved. The highest saving USED to be CVs when their base Tier X Service Cost was 360,000/battle (36,000 credit savings). That did get altered down after the Premium Consumable change standardized all consumables.

Was quite sure Tier X CVs were altered to 240,000/match, but I just tested across Co-Op (baked in 25% reduction) and Randoms which showed 180,000/match for my Audacious. So, the flag would be currently worth 18,000 credits/match, which isn't very much.

Further, the flag incentizes only Tier X play to try and maximize the return on it, as opposed to just playing whatever you want to play.

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As for allowing Service Cost Reductions, there are permacamos, equippable camos, and clan bonuses which all reduce Service Costs. That's all still a thing~

Definitely send a ticket to Player Support/Customer Service!