Hey phreak I just want to start this with saying I am a big fan. However this argument that she has a high skill expression is quite the moot point when someone got to platinum playing her with her feet while he was playing adc with his hands.
Challenger player smurfs on two accounts and winds up 1000 MMR below their skill level is not the sick burn you think it is.
What's yuumi's presence in LCS?
Picked in every single game played
LOL. Phreak are they putting you at gunpoint ? This is like saying "There were 10 millions of haters now there are 5 millions so this is a huge W"
I mean Yuumi isn’t getting deleted. Changes that go in a positive direction are good changes. I wish people would be willing to accept that.
Question for you:
Why do you feel the need to be so condescending when simply presenting stats?
Your point would come across way better if you did not add the extra noise to it.
Bad habit of matching the energy of OP. I should do better.
Those numbers still aren't ok.
Yeah the first two are pretty unacceptable, hence the update. At this point her pro presence is higher than we’d like, hence the nerfs in 13.12
Hi Phreak, even if the presence is relatively low and this rework made it happen - which is good - I want to ask a question:
Is it possible or has it happend before that a rework like this is reversed or replaced by another one?It seems that the rework isn't the most popular. I was a Yuumi main myself before the rework and the new passive just feels awful when your ADC is bad and not rewarding if the ADC is good.
I have switched to Thresh after the rework and I have enjoyed it (thanks for the Q changes then btw) but it's just not the same.
Is there hope for poeple like me?
Yuumi's win rate is high and pick rate are higher, and ban rate and pro presence are lower than she was at Worlds last year.
By virtually every metric that matters the rework is a success.
Nothing rioters love more than burying their head in the sand using these meaningless ass numbers as their shovel
Nothing redditors love more than ignoring reality.
I'm a big fan Phreak but is this really your take as a designer? 'It is the players and the pro players who are wrong?' That can't be right homie, it doesn't matter good the numbers look. The numbers are a way to try to quantify a game process, not the be all end all of themselves.
The old meme, a champ that coinflips the nexus exploding at 0:01 would probably not have a huge playrate and a 50-50 winrate but would it be a good design?
No, it's against the original sentiment of "She's in every other game." And the original sentiment that the update did nothing. It clearly lowered her pro presence while also massively buffing her in the hands of regular players. Both of those are good things. People should base their takes in reality, which many people in this subreddit have an incredibly hard time doing. It's not like the data is hard to acquire.
I'm not sayin pro players are wrong for picking her but let's face reality: She's in some games. She's played occasionally. She's 100% presence in the LCK, which is a weaker league than the LPL. And she's getting nerfed in 13.12, and defensibly so.
Are you saying that the general playerbase of a Champion with high skill expression was actually happy that their main's kit got dumbed down and their skill expression removed?
I said what I said.
The funniest thing is that Yuumi players wanted the opposite, it's way more fun to time detachments and jump between champions than AFK most of the time and just press 2 buttons every once in a while, sometimes 3. I'm not a Yuumi main but looking through their sub this seemed to be the sentiment
People who go to a subreddit to talk about their champion are not a representative sample of people who play that champion
At some point, Riot made a very abrupt about face regarding Yuumi. One minute, they're describing her as a deceptively high skill expression character, the next Riot says she was always supposed to have been a very easy champion to pick up and learn. The whiplash was wild.
Yuumi was a deceptively high skill expression character. That's factually accurate. Champion mastery and MMR had an outsized impact on win rate compared to other enchanters.
Intent and reality are not the same thing.
So at the end of the day, the changes did a massive amount of work skewing her away from pro. She has nerfs coming in 13.12, and we’ll react from there.
Worth noting that LPL and LEC are typically the best drafting leagues. LCK seems to pretty frequently hyper-focus on champions that don’t stand up in international competition. Compared to LCK, LPL’s Yuumi presence is much lower.
Read moreCenser is currently the most built support legendary item in the game, including tanks
Not saying that Censer isn't overtuned, but wouldn't it be a strong contender for the most built support legendary even if balanced just because it's got the most consistently useful niche (buffing your ADC)? Staff is niche based on team comp, Mikael's and Putrifier are situational, Mandate is only good on some champions. Even Redemption is slightly situational as it needs you to be having large scale teamfights by the time you build it to be at its best.
It seems to me that Censer will always be the default first item post-mythic for enchanters unless it's gutted, and so nerfing it because it's popular seems silly. Am I wrong?
Here's a fun note: The Ardent meta from Worlds 2017 was 25% flat AS and 25 flat on hit damage
This is missing the fact that Ardent Censer's on-hit damage was also on-hit healing ...
Ardent did not heal during Worlds.
Edit: I’m wrong, that got removed the patch after and cloned the effect onto the caster.
isn't 80 less magic damage a bit much tho?
Expecting to be level 18 at all times is a bit much isn’t it?
Why should i ever take Overheal again?
Well it's 20% stronger than 12.23, and 75% of Aphelios players ran it then, so... 🤷♂️
was rapid fire that strong? who even uses it? lucian?
With those nerfs ardent is gonna be worse than it was before the changes, wow.
Censer is currently the most built support legendary item in the game, including tanks.
Items coming online 400 gold earlier is a really big deal. The fact that supports are getting to complete more items is great but that means the items have to be tuned around actually showing up in games now and few things are more impactful than damage buffs on a marksman.
Remember that 13.9 censer provided 10-30% AS (20% AS at level 9-10) and 5-20 on-hit damage (15 damage at level 12-13). So the overall power of the passive is relatively similar to the prior version of the item... And it got 10% cheaper. So losing about 10% of the item's power is reasonable: The base stats are about as efficient as they were before (5% ms and 200 gold vs 25 AP is a pretty fair trade), so taking down the on-hit damage to be on average a bit lower is really just keeping the item balanced compared to before.
The goals of letting supports buy more items was a good one and these items should...
Read moreAre we going to talk about the fact that the gale force changes have a full build break even point (200% crit scaling vs 45% bAD) of 444.44bAD recurring, and there's a certain ADC which has a fixation on the number 4, builds gale force a lot and also has a kit which gives them much higher bAD than normal?
Coincidence? I think not.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Yeah, I guess that's more or less what I expected. Thanks!
NP!
When you and other Rioters cite the agency stats/metrics like "ADCs have 21% agency currently", etc. are those metrics for all elos or plat+?
And are there different numbers for different elos for role agency?
Id imagine 21% ADC agency is for all elos and the number is at least a bit higher for Masters+, no?
It changes a bit with MMR but not massively so.
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