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Thanks for posting this! I'm Josh Menke and I wanted to say feel free to ask questions or leave additional feedback on this change here and I'll read through them and answer ones I can.
Thanks for posting this! I'm Josh Menke and I wanted to say feel free to ask questions or leave additional feedback on this change here and I'll read through them and answer ones I can.
It's really that the other 3 elements kinda don't make sense without the 4th one. At this point they should be named Drake1 - Drake2 - Drake3 - Elder Drake, because as I said the other elements don't make sense if one of them is no existent. I don't think it matters what the cloud drake gives, it just has to be there for the other elements to make sense.
How does its existence make the other drakes make more sense? What about adding a 4th drake changes it from "Drake1 - Drake2 - Drake3 - Elder Drake" to "Infernal - Ocean - Mountain - Cloud - Elder Drake"?
Why can't you change the Cloud Drake's movement speed to ability haste?
We could, but what is it about the Cloud Drake that you like? If it is the MS then this doesn't really address that. If it is a different reason can you elaborate on that a bit for me? The question isn't so much "can we add Cloud Drake?" it's really "Should we add Cloud Drake" What does its existence add to the game.
Honestly i like the current goal you guys have. Like you said we're to used to one thing which is dragon spawn go dragon and that not happening is making people take the wrong approach to this mode.
I personally do feel like dragons being overall less powerful is better for the game, as it opens up so many opportunities, everyone will have some breathing room, specially junglers where under the current normal dragon system its too much responsibility on one player.
I think the pain point lies in the fact that people think that dragons are too good/best objective and need to be taken or they lose games? So maybe its a learning/knowledge issue.
If you guys do go forward with something like the current elemental system, i think maybe it'll be just a matter of time for people to realise how the new meta works.
Ya there is learning for sure. It being a new mode that asks you to take dragon to see all the fancy new things, so players will go for that (understandable). This isn't a problem right now and we don't expect people to have it all figured out in just a few days (I'd call that a bad thing). But so long as the tools are there, and in a decent spot, I trust the balance team will make some tweaks and get it into a good tuning spot.
I think I've had a new train of thought, 5 minutes to 1st drake feels super good, but im undecided about the rest, 1 way i see this as people just wanting to get soul and it not happening often enough because of the dragon spawn times but another way i see if is that that gives the other team an advantage to deny soul from the enemy team.
There's also the situation that with the current system in place, you don't essentially need to contest dragon and can look for other opportunities, because say if you got 1 or 2 drake, or even none, you can skip it and do something else, and only contest to deny soul.
Maybe making soul stronger is a better approach? And having less focus on elder or even not having an elder?
I think most of the complains of no elder we have are from the fact that we're so used to getting elder.
Or what if after a certain threshold you just can't get dragon soul anymore, and the elder spawns at say 18 or 20 mins, and whoever gets it...
We anticipated some level of "I wanted to try dragon soul / elder" so people are very likely to force it right now. But ultimately our goals we don't think that every dragon should mean "everyone go for dragon now" we have been playing that for the past year. But our hope is that teams will still care about getting the dragon and dragon soul, but also be willing to push for plays around the map.
By reducing the power of Dragons/ team objectives for example we increase an individuals power. Maybe this means you are willing to trade the first dragon for the first tower etc.
Elemental Rift Goals: 1) Increase individual agency and one's ability to impact the game. 2) Give players breathing room between fights. 3) Increase the power and impact of tactical gameplay + making strategic choices more visible. 4) Reduce the impact of the "weakest link" teammate on the outcome of the game.
Read moreI dont think it is wrong if the game ends without either.
But I think it is wrong that the game is pretty much guaranteed to end without either team getting a soul if a team gets 2 drakes and then the other team gets 2 other drakes.
Because this basically means that the team that gave up the first 2 drakes will surely not see the soul because if they get the third and fourth dragon (so both teams have two) at that point either team can end the game.
I just feel like if a team doesnt collect all three first dragons but instead one team gets two and the other gets one the chances of seeing a soul are very rare, so it would be nice to reduce the drake spawn timers so that maybe in a scenario where a team has 1 drake and the other gets 2 another drake with a soul will still spawn before players are already ending the game.
Right now I only see souls if a team hardfocuses on drakes and stomps another team hard enough to be able to have a soul spawn at 17 ...
Good to know, let me ask this question in a slightly different way.
We are open to changing the respawn times (or any numbers for that matter). Is there a preference for what you would like to see more often between Elder Dragon and Dragon Soul. As a bad example, we could make every other dragon an Elder Dragon, and players would see Elder more often. Maybe even an Elder Elemental Dragon so that Dragon Soul remains unaffected.
And what percentage of games do you think Dragon Soul or Elder Dragon should show up in?
I think most player are so used to getting elder in normal mode, so people don't see dragon soul in same light.
Afaik in lolpc, dragon soul is contested the same way as the elder in wr as of right now.
Though i still agree that timer after first dragon should be lowered to 4 to 3.5 mins. I have played 50 plus elemental and rarely got a soul, as most matches were mostly over by the time soul dragon was up.
Plus even with the soul, late game it hardly matters, as everyone is full build. So tweaking the buffs to give certain advantage should be considered again.
Got elder 2-3 times and the 20% execution is kindof too strong, maybe that's the intention to begin with.
But in very close matches, where everyone is trying hardest to pull a flip, outsmart other team. Elder just ruins the late game neck to neck rush.
Elder is designed to make sure games end. The soonest you can see it is 20+ min, and like you said it can spawn much later than that if the other team gets a dragon. So a long close game still needs to come to an end, and forcing an Elder fight should be a good way to do that.
Thanks for the feedback! Are you saying that you think Dragon Soul and/or elder should happen every game? Because right now the scenario you proposed suggests that the game would end before either team gets either, or if the game is more one sided it can obviously happen at the 15+ mark. Do you think that is wrong for a game to end without either?
Cloud drake was so cool please return her :(
Can you elaborate on that thought a bit for me?
To answer your question, no they didn't forget about her lol. Watch Riot Endsteps previous streams on twitch where he talks about Shyvana more.
But basically they said they'll do/doing/will do (coz we don't know) something about Shyvana before elemental rift becomes the main game mode.
We got time so don't worry.
Correct, we will be iterating on Elemental Rift and it could change a lot, based on player feedback. It makes sense to solidify her changes as we get closer to the final version.
It isn't something we plan on over looking, but the options were to ship changes that would imbalance her for ranked, for a passive more geared towards a game mode that we expect to iterate on (and thus we would need to reshape for each version). So we decided to leave her passive alone until we got closer to a more final version.
Hello maybe allowing us to test cloud rift is not that bad? Do you have a plan to extend the testing too? Or it will end at the given date?
The thought was that we would test without cloud drake and see how that feels first. It doesn't mean we couldn't bring it back in a future test (and/or final version) it really depends on the feedback.
It's worth keeping in mind that more isn't always better, by removing it we will see the other more appreciable drakes/map changes more frequently. Maybe that is a good thing, maybe it's a bad thing.
As for the dates, I don't know of any plans to change those, it is possible that they get extended (not something I would be a part of deciding), but we expect to be testing multiple iterations.
Idk if you’d be the person to ask, but why is the gamemode using classics matchmaking instead of the ranked matchmaking? I just feel like you guys would get better and more consistent feedback from people if it was tested using the matchmaking system it’ll be released to
Unfortunately, I don't know the details of the matchmaking system, but I believe each mode uses its own matchmaking.
We are also not super concerned about the balance/tuning yet. We really want to make sure people are able to try the mode, and that we are hitting the below goals. Tuning is a part of that for sure but we expect to be making changes to the system then tuning within that system.
Elemental Rift Goals:
1) Increase individual agency and one's ability to impact the game.
2) Give players breathing room between fights.
3) Increase the power and impact of tactical gameplay + making strategic choices more visible.
4) Reduce the impact of the "weakest link" teammate on the outcome of the game.
Wait its only a game mode and not update for the regular summoners rift map all that hype for nothing
We are testing it as a game mode first. We plan on using player feedback to drive iteration, that will make it into the final Elemental Rift, that will replace the standard map.
My guess without checking your data specifically is that it's early in the season still and there aren't a lot of high-ranked players around your rank to match with available yet. If that's the case, it'll go away as more players climb up closer to your rank.
The only problem with this is AD jungler that need Divine Sunderer cant buy it as their first item cuz they need atleast a long sword to clear jungle.
For laner (baron laner to be exact) on the other hand going ruby crystal first item isnt all that impactful. It is even a better choice in some matchup
You can still start with a Long Sword then build DS from there. You'll end up using the longsword in another item.
Not being able to start Long Sword when going Divine Sunderer first sucks. Other than that, they're nice additions to the game.
It is something we spent a bit of time going back and forth on. Ultimately building out of a long sword would require us to put a lot more AD on the time (likely building out of B.F. Sword), much more than we wanted to. So instead the AD comes from Jaurim's Fist.
He is in a fine spot right now, people often undervalue him because he isn't as flashy or getting the kills himself, but he does a great job setting up his team. And the smite nerfs to basic attacks likely helped him a bit.
I'm no expert, but I think the logic behind it is that if tenacity goes past a certain point it can render a lot of the cc skills in the game functionally useless.
And that's a BIG thing considering how many chmapions rely on CC for pretty much anything. Not to mention all the champs that you have to counter through CC.
Imagine you're Veigar and a fed ass Sett is coming towards you with enough tenacity to go past your stun circle before your second skill lands. Doesn't seem exactly fair, does it now?
Either way, that's just my first guess.
Ya, we do have a limit for these reasons. We don't want to invalidate CC by driving Tenacity too high.
Who gets demolished by unexpected heals? Tanks maybe?
I know I was like "What!?! I just missed a kill because Braum knocked *Insert champion name here* over the wall then ran off and healed!".
So whisper a little more for the eager?
I yelled it...now my neighbors think I'm crazy.