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07 Apr

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by shrekker49

But it is something that should be expected of them to learn, since it is a role in the real game, no? Is there a reason I'm unaware of that would be a reason smite wouldn't be available from the start? It's not like it'd break the game for newer players to have it, even if they don't get the concept of using it in a particular role.

I think overloading players with a lot of things to learn is a fast way to overwhelm and potentially scare them off. Slowly trickling new mechanics in is a much safer way of doing it, which I believe is the approach here.

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by [deleted]

Are you f**king kidding me dude.

Do you realize how bizzare that sounds?

"Yeah jungle is a shit role to play and a shitload of jungle mains are switching roles or quit playing so instead of making junglers who gave up on the role come back to it by fixing jungle we're gonna try to lure people into the jungle by buffing low elo champs"

I think you are just missing a lot of context here is all. Jungle isn't nearly as unpopular a role in skilled/elite levels of play, in low elo it is by far the most popular out of all elo brakcets. And bringing proven popular champions into an unpopular role isn't that bizzare to me at all. The buffs are also done in such a way so that they will have a low impact on those champions' pre-existing roles as possible, so they aren't buffed as a whole so much as they are buffed specifically only for jungle. All this is also not to say that we think this is the one and only solution to solving the many problems that exist with the jungle, this is simply one change that is currently being made.

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by Darglechorfius

SO THATS WHY THERE IS A LINE AT THE END OF THE ULT! I’m new to league but I noticed pretty early that line on lux’s ult where it cuts off and I’ve always thought it was oddly helpful. That line has gotten me out of many near deaths.

I'm glad that line's helpful!

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by Rbespinosa13

Then why not just do the basics and let players know the options they got? Like have a tutorial on how to gank or power farm. The jungle changes the most every season but the core concepts stay the same. Stuff like when a lane is open to a gank is going to be the same no matter what meta. Just doing that would help out immensely at helping new players learn jungle

I agree honestly, I think its something that will likely be worth doing in the not so distant future.

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by Fishy_125

maybe new players should start with smite (and all summoners) so they can learn it at the beginning too

Yeah its something that we have considered for sure, I think that jungling might be something a tad too complex for first-time players, but its something thats not off the table.

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by pinkangel69

Wow, riot is surely quick when it comes to lux skins. Thought that was a meme

I just happened to have some time to fix it. :d

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by Kassabad

Katarina jungle pretty please?

Haha that could be fun, I wanted Yasuo jungle but no luck :(

Morgana also got a monstrous jungle buff on PBE, and can now Red-start full clear in under 2:55 leashless, making her even faster than Darius.

Comment

Originally posted by Djinn_in_Tonic

Since this popped out of a Sylas discussion specifically, do you think Sylas prone to poaching camps from mid enough that, say, a buff to monster damage on his passive or Q risks over-buffing his lane too much?

Because looking at some of these changes it feels like there might already be some potential issues that might be more worrying, such as mid Morgana being much more able to easily path into Raptors from mid now (or take Scuttle as a support), or lane Mordekaiser having a much easier time threatening fights in the jungle because tapping a jungle monster is enough to keep his passive going and his threat active. Not that I don't like opening the jungle to these characters -- I just see potential for significant new opportunities or strengths for laners as well.

Yeah I think those concerns are reasonable callouts and something that we have kept in mind during testing. I think that our conclusions have been that these are acceptable risks that won't manifest themselves too often to be unhealthy to champion/game as a whole. I can't say for sure about Sylas being prone to poach camps, I think it carries some risk but the main risk of Sylas jungle is turning him into one of the aforementioned power-farming hyperscalers. I think something else I forgot to mention before is that Sylas is a bit of a flex pick for both mid and top in pro play, making him a trio flex pick carries some massive risk for furthering how pro-bound he is as a champion, which is also something we generally prefer to avoid.

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by o__________________e

Why not make changes to the jungle to make more people want to play it rather than give popular champions the ability to clear jungle until there are enough people playing it to say it is healthy? That seems like the lazy way out.

I do wanna say that first those numbers pushed to PBE were clearly overtuned and have been adjusted and likely will be adjusted further. I think making jungle as a role more appealing rather than adding appealing champions is a good goal to have, though it is decisively harder to accomplish from a goals standpoint as well as workload. Any change we make to the jungle will always have big ripple effects so the rammifications will always be hard to foresee. This change would also likely cause a massive shift in pro so it would have to be reserved for mid-season or pre-season. All that being said I wouldn't count it out as a possibility at some point.

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by SmokeCocks

Why not make guides or tutorials in the game on how to jungle.

Players don't play jungle because of the massive responsibility they have and if they don't understand it they are less likely to play it.

I like the idea, and personally I could see value in us doing this. I think a concern here is how fast it would be depricated because of how often the jungle changes. Putting a lot of time and effort into a high-quality guide and then having it be outdated a year later would feel pretty bad in my opinion.

Morgana also got a monstrous jungle buff on PBE, and can now Red-start full clear in under 2:55 leashless, making her even faster than Darius.

Comment

Originally posted by AmWhaleIRL

The goal of these changes is to broaden the jungle pool

What's your guy's stance on Re-Buffing Sylas JG? He was VERY popular JG and anytime I see you guys do these specific kind of JG changes (pushing Morg, Darius, Zed, etc into JG) I always see tons of comments and tweets asking to Re-Buff Sylas JG. Is there no way for him to JG without being either OP or UP?

Can't speak on the team's stance on it, but I can give my personal opinion here. I think bringing Sylas jungle back could be not too bad, but the struggle with making these champions junglers is what we want to do it without buffing their lane. There will always be overlap to some degree, but minimizing that overlap as much as possible is always a goal. Something I feel we also tend to want to avoid is introducing junglers that will just be clear gods AND scale absurdly well, and thus they are incentivized to just powerfarm in the jungle until they scale to late game. This is part of the reason you don't see marksman among the champions we are trying to introduce into the jungle. Also caveat here that of course some champions like this already exist (looking at your Karthus), but they are in the minority and them existing to some degree adds some healthy variety, we just want to avoid that being the overwhelming strategy of junglers.

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by Oblivionous

That's nice but why add a line one the ground that's further out that the visual of the beam? Malphite was clearly not touching the beam just make it visually line up.

The ground line is the accurate end of the hitbox. Since the beam is raised high up in the air, having a ground indicator made sense.

Why is Riot trying to introduce non-jungle champions into the jungle in a meta where a huge cast of champions designed to be junglers feel unplayable?

Comment

Originally posted by KingWalf

Because they want laners to be like “oh, my champ can jungle now? Let’s try it out!” Because jungle is really unpopular

This sentiment is mostly correct, in general we are looking to increase the popularity of jungle across the board by introducing traditionally popular champions, especially in lower elos.

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by darkacesp

Yep, the replies under you got what I mean, I was referring to the fact the beam doesn't seem to reach the line. I realize elevation etc. is a part of League, but if the line is a part of the beam, why not just extend the beam to meet the line?

Currently working on extending the beam to match her other skins. :)

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by Caenen_

Wait something is weird in that clip. While the ground indicator is the same as classic Lux and checks out alright (the spell is also modern rectangle with edge range so this Malphite was still well inside the hitbox), the laser (the part that doesn't render at Lux' ground height) is missing a little bit of length?

Classic Lux' laser particle doesn't have this issue, it even has a bright spot at the end to emphasize the total length.

This bright spot appears to be missing here?

Edit: Seems to be that the laser particle from Elementalist Lux's forms is this slight bit too short. Not a terrible discrepancy but I hope you could make it stretch the final 50 units aswell, like the others do!

Ty Caenen for the context! I'll see if I can get it to match the other skins, and I'll add the light at the end of the beam as well.


06 Apr

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by darkacesp

That’s actually very nice, thanks Sirhaian. But wait, wouldn’t it be better to extend the Lux Ult then? Or does that cause more issues with like the lollipop of the hit box?

Not sure I understand what you mean. :o

The ground hitbox visuals should be accurate.

Malphite gets chased by three Luxes.

Comment

Originally posted by DragonOfDuality

The ult isn't stupid but that hitbox has always been horrible.

10 years of horrible Lux ult hitbox yay

I specifically added a line at the end of Lux's ult to mark its end, and Malphite here was clearly on that line still when it hit. :c

EDIT: After looking closer at the issue, it looks like Elementalist Lux's R beam was indeed shorter than the other skins. I've corrected that and it should be fixed on PBE tomorrow.

Here's a before/after of the change: https://imgur.com/dxfnl3X

11.8 Patch Preview with tentative changes

Comment

Originally posted by egirldestroyer69

Imo as someone who plays cassio those buffs doesnt do much. In lane most of the time you have no mana to all in before first back (even with the buffs) and after first back tear you have no mana issues.

The main difference between her and karthus is karthus q is spammable while in cassio you are reliant on hitting Q or W so it doesnt have nearly as much impact nor is as spammable.

I think a small buff that could increase her winrate by a small margin is giving her 5 more base armor. Assassin lanes have become extremely hard after seekers nerf and the fact cassio has one of the lowest base armor in the game. Another option would be to increase her e healing since she got hit pretty hard after ravenous hunter nerfs.

Just for reference, +5 base armor is probably 2-3% winrate

11.8 Patch Preview with tentative changes

Comment

Originally posted by HardstuckPlasticV

You can isolate winrate deltas for specific changes? That's very cool. Can you share a little more about that? Is it a matter of referencing similar changes in the past, theorycrafter-style math, etc.?

2% is surprising if it is coming from the cost changes alone. I would expect huge differences like that to come from some sort of first clear breakpoint, but Karthus would have just -1 mana per Q once he levels it again at rank 3. I think he has remained pretty hard-bound to PoM secondary and Liandry's; am I missing an important factor here?

Tends to be using similar or the same changes in the past to ballpark. Like we had previously done this exact Karthus Q ap ratio the other way so we have a decent sense of that change. We also have good senses of base stats and stuff like simple damage changes.

Karthus was on the high end here. I looked into it and he had a total of like a 5-6% delta that patch. A lot of it for Karthus was he was actually under the bar for being able to clear the jungle midgame so he's absolutely on the high end, it moved him from like running out of mana to being ok with mana itemization




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