So even without the jungle buffs she would have gotten a HP regen, E damage and EQ combo nerf? Seems a bit harsh for a champ that's 95% of the time a worse Zed.
Would love to see these changes to be revisited.
Theres a good chance we revisit a lot of these changes in 11.19 if they go too far in either direction. This is why we did them a patch before worlds, to be sure their impact isn't more extreme than we would like them to be.
I find Yone fun af too. Just impossible to play against sometimes on some champs mid, lane feels like a disaster.
My crying to the side, I can respect them opinion that he is balanced well atm. What would the lever be to target a low elo nerf if not E Movespeed? E duration maybe?
Thanks :)
its hard to say, Yone's levers are pretty fickle. E duration might be something but its also something thats pretty sacred to the character so we would be very reluctant to change it. Not to cop-out but I honestly can't think of anything off the top of my head LOL. Thankfully Yone is pretty flat in terms of elo skew, even being slightly stronger in low elo compared to other elo brackets so we wouldn't require any low elo buffs any time soon.
I am extremely bias because I love playing Yone honestly. With that being said, in my opinion Yone in general is pretty balanced right now, but overall fairly frustrating to play against. Move speed on E is a pretty necessary tool to make his E function well, otherwise it would be really hard to stick on enemies and continue to DPS them. I don't think that part of that ability has a particular elo skew, though it may be more useful in low elo because players would struggle to position as well on Yone and the MS helps compensate for that. I think overall though that part of his kit is basically a must for it to function.
Worth noting I think the movespeed on the E does contribute somewhat to the frustration, but its an accepted cost to make the ability work. I think frustration is also not necessarily a bad thing in a champion as long as it is at a a reasonable level, which I think Yone's is. We usually measure player frustration in banrate proportional to winrate, and overall his seems to be at a completely reasonable level.
Thanks a ton for the reply GalaxySmash. Could you comment on how you feel about the feeling about balance on Yone E move speed and it’s effect in low elo ? I Appreciate the insight immensely!
I am extremely bias because I love playing Yone honestly. With that being said, in my opinion Yone in general is pretty balanced right now, but overall fairly frustrating to play against. Move speed on E is a pretty necessary tool to make his E function well, otherwise it would be really hard to stick on enemies and continue to DPS them. I don't think that part of that ability has a particular elo skew, though it may be more useful in low elo because players would struggle to position as well on Yone and the MS helps compensate for that. I think overall though that part of his kit is basically a must for it to function.
Can you elaborate a little bit on what happens if the champs that are seeing niche buffs don't get picked at worlds? Do they see more further changes to hopefully make them more viable? Or what happens to the champs that see more play and become pick/ban due to these changes or because people are finally noticing a specific champ is actually really good but got overlooked. Every patch has hits and duds, what happens with the hits and duds in this scenario if the only goal for these changes targeted at pro play.
Theres a lot of moving parts here, because we have to consider both pro play and also all of the skill bands of non-pro play. Ideally, these changes bring these champions that are currently out of the pro meta INTO the pro meta, but not as such that they are dominant in presence (picks and bans). If a champion has too high pro presence as a direct result of these changes (or otherwise) we will probably nerf them because we want to encourage more diversity in pro, not have it be dominated by a small subset of characters. If a change doesn't bring a champion into pro play at worlds... its hard to say. They might see pro-focused buffs in the future or we might shift our focus to other projects. Likewise even if a champion doesn't see pro play, if our changes make them too dominant for non-pro League of Legends, they will be nerfed. While we want these champions in pro we aren't willing to sacrifice the game for the rest of the playerbase to make that happen.
Camille flying out of real nerfs with e
We wanted to target her early laning because that is where she is strongest and a big part of the reason she is dominant in pro. For all elo bands her winrate isn't actually too high, so we mainly wanted to focus on reasons for her pro dominance.
I thought Fizz was supposed to receive a buff this patch. This looks like a nerf rather than a buff. And where's Playful / Trickster cooldown reduction from PBE?
URGOT
Q - Corrosive Charge
Cooldown 12/11/10/9/8 seconds ⇒ 10/9.5/9/8 seconds
Typo. Also it's supposed to be a buff against ranged match ups but it buffs him against melee as well, doesn't it?
KARMA
E - Inspire
Base Shield 80/125/170/215/260 ⇒ 90/135/180/225/270
Nice. Throw some bones to Karma. With that she'll be able to carry again.
And no changes to Ryze. Lad has been sitting on poor win rates lately and, I suppose, "problematic" in pro play. Guess it's the time for another Ryze rework, eh?
The Fizz changes were always meant to be an adjustment rather than a buff or nerf, I believe that was miscommunicated. The E changes were pulled as they were deemed too risky, and also we didn't feel they were as pro-focused as we wanted them to be (the goal of many of these changes being to bring these champions into pro play where possible).
Are you really saying Qiyana is weak mid? Jesus this sub... She has a 52%+ WR at Diamond elo and higher on 11.17.
https://lolalytics.com/lol/qiyana/build/?tier=diamond_plus
She is a "high elo" champ, she feel maybe not as strong in plat where she is almost at 50%WR because people don't know how to play her optimally.
Nerfing her mid to also make her more flexible with the jungle is a right call.
Qiyana is indeed one of the strongest mid laners in high elo and has been consistently for awhile. Ideally this should help tone down some of her power while also opening her up into the jungle.
[Serious, Don't say bcuz skin.] Could I ask why exactly Yone was given a buff? Across all ELOs he seems to be in a okay spot for an melee ADC right now.
It seems pretty dumb. Really the champ should be getting a adjustment to make lane against him feel less obnoxious, either nerf E's duration or give it less move speed early on.
As others have said a lot of these buffs are targeted at pro play (specifically changes that will manifest far more often in pro than other bands of play) and this change for Yone is no different. While he falls within "balanced", he is on the lower end and we felt we could afford to buff him in a low-risk way that we feel won't manifest much in the skill bands where he is strongest.
if their playrate is just low due to people perceiving them as bad
Ok but that makes no sense for Yone because his playrate is literally among the highest in the game:
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/de/champions/stats/yone
And all his other stats are completely fine so this buff is entirely unwarranted. But this patch is for Worlds so yeah....they just want him to be played at Worlds i guess.
An explicit goal of many of these buffs is that we want these champions to be picked at worlds.
Like most of the buffs this patch, it's because they want him to be picked in worlds. It's not bigger because he's already doing well.
This is correct. Yone is balanced (neither OP nor UP) but he is on the lower side of that band, so we figured we could do a low-risk pro facing buff. We looked at Yasuo as well but he, while also balanced, is on the higher end of balanced so we figured it was not worth the risk.
They are really hesitant to put the Rengar rework on live server huh?
Rengar was put to PBE with the intent to gather feedback and not to ship immediatly. This was something that was being tried, and not the normal process we go through.
idk if 25% extra dmg to jg is worth losing some of the auto aim on Q for Qiyana. Also losing 10 dmg all rank on her E. Seems like a straight nerf
That change is not meant to be because of her jungling, it was an independent decision.
Holy shit, thank god they didnt go with the original design. Having a champion that can double the range of any projectile is insane.
The same thing that doubled the range of allied projectiles also used to half the speed of enemy projectiles, it was wild
Thresh is extremely resilient to nerfs
Or maybe, maybe, the nerfs are way too soft.
Its possible. Looking at similar changes to other champs, those nerfs have had more of an effect on winrate, but Thresh could just be more unique in how certain changes to his abilities effect him.
He had a high presence in LPL i think.
Yup, pro play in general
5th thresh nerf in a row. Nice
Thresh is extremely resilient to nerfs, it is rather impressive. No matter what we change about him he doesn't seem to be affected.
Bloody hell, i am a goddamn PROPHET with those exact gangplank changes.
Like, LEGITIMATELY exact.
Wow thats crazy, well done! We toyed with a few changes, mainly more hp/lvl, but we landed exactly as you predicted, crazy
Is the duration of mf r increased? Or do the waves fire faster now? Would be huge if they fire faster
Waves fire faster
Okay, I have to kinda jump in on the opportunity. Any chances of looking into Brand and Zyra jungle rather than the Zed Talon etc we are seeing?
Rather than? Unlikely. In the future? Possibly. Opening up new champions to the jungle is something we have explored a lot this season, and its possible more champions get looked at in the future to be added as junglers.
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