GalaxySmash

Ill say this first since it always comes up but- its clear winrate is not the only important stat when evaluating a champion. With that being said it is a huge limiting factor in what we can do. Taliyah's winrate is already in a spot where there is not a lot we can do with her to give her satisfaction without giving her power. We did the closest we could in opening her back up to being a jungler earlier this year, where as before she was only a mid laner and even more unpopular than she is now. Opening her up to jungler gave her a boost in playrate and it seems Taliyah players overall enjoy her more in the jungle for a variety of reasons. Beyond, the champion is unfortunately just genuinely unpopular. This could be for a variety of reasons, but the fact remains true. We have tried small changes to solve it but couldn't get anything to stick. I think at this point its clear to get a big increase in pick rate she would require some large-scale work which is difficult to find time for...

There are far, far more points in the game than early and late. In this examples "early" is referencing even just levels 1/2/3, past that a lot of these champions become extremely weak until later in the game. A lot of champions have counter-play that is completely unrelated to a point in the game. A champion like Riven is less so considered "weak" during a specific point in the game and moreso countered by something like CC for example. This is also something that is entirely by champion and less by class. Orianna and Veigar are both mages, but Veigar's early lane is one of the weakest in the game while Oriannas is one of the strongest, despite being the same class.

I think its a pretty common pattern to have hyper scalers be very strong at early levels then have weak mid games then obviously strong late games. GP comes to mind as a great example, Kayle, Yasuo are some others that come to mind.

This is correct, this is a known bug

No hard feelings friend, appreciate the response. Agree that this post isnt nearly as bad as a lot of others and I understand since its coming from passion. Just wanted to offer some genuine advice to help your thoughts stand out more! I’ll make sure the post gets seen but I wouldn’t expect much in the way of changes since these are so far along

Just a piece of feedback from someone who writes, reads, and receives a lot of feedback in their career. We read reddit, we go through a lot of the fanbases feedback, and we often use it to inform our decisions. A great way to get your feedback read and considered is to work it in a respectful, non-hyperbolic way. Just present your information in a factual and informative manner. The more hyperboles and exaggerative (and frankly, rude) language you use the harder it is to actual parse your opinion and analysis on things.

We want him out of support jail and into top jail

I don't know if you are joking and just wanted to insert this funny clip but this article (which I am assuming you didnt read based on the reply) literally explains why he has a revive in great detail.

I am at peace with this "meme" because honestly the answer is candid. For example how much power is a potentially 5-man 2.5s complete invulnerability? On paper that is surely game-breaking absurdity but in practice Taric ult is a completely fair and reasonable spell. We want each champion to have an identity and do something unique, and quantifying that uniqueness is almost always exceptionally difficult. I would almost aruge that the less quantifiable an effect is the more interesting and unique that makes it, though our goals vary for each project on just how much we want to push the bar.

Thats a fair concern, and its something we keep in mind when hotfixing him. We choose AD partially because his last hitting and farming was very difficult, which isn't a weakness we wanted him to have (nor likely any champion to have). Things like the attack speed are on our radar for similar reasons, we have weaknesses we want him to have, but for our buffs we want to target those weaknesses which aren't intentional or vital to his identity.

I will only comment on one thing which is that pros will absolutely 100% pick "weak" champions, and in fact do so very often. This is of course if your definition of weak champion is purely by low winrate.

I think its impact would be varied, I am sure a lot of players especially lower elo spend more time shopping than just waiting out their regen but it certainly would have some impact especially higher elos. Still very much worth considering

Agreed, which feels like its a pretty free win

Pretty cool idea, not sure how much it would actually do but I think this is a pretty neat and out of the box approach.

Appreciate you for doing your part in fighting against misinformation, this is really well done. I know I get very frustrated often playing against this champ but so many of the things listed in this post are either just poorly backed opinions or just straight up wrong. Your post has some good analysis and as you pointed out next patch, we want to bring him more into jungle and out of lane by doing some changes that nerf his laning and buff his jungling. None of these are explicitly targeting frustration but I think his jungling pattern is far less frustrating than his laning pattern, so I think this might help a decent amount. It makes sense to wait where these changes land before we make any more decisions.

It happens, champions migrate lanes. Nocturne for example used to be almost only a jungler but now he is very much in solo lanes. We hold more stricter goals for new champions as well as champions we are actively making changes to, but it's simply impossible to enforce strict goals for every existing champion in the game. If we deemed that Lucian mid/top was unhealthy for a specific reason or perhaps it became a pro play problem, then that might lead us to make some changes.

Depends on the champ. As long as they aren't overpowered or dominant for the most part they aren't that bad. Most only exist as niche counterpicks anyway, which will always exist. Something like Kalista might be a problem because Kalista in a solo lane does not utilize a large portion of her kit, for example her passive on W and for the most part her R. If a champion is functioning without some of their abilities that is likely not something we want, so we might look to make changes to help rectify that.

I definitely find myself yearning for the days of old sometimes, I used to love playing Sona mid for example. I think a lot of the problem here stems from how hyper-optimized the game is now. Its great that everyone has reliable, easy access to really accurate data sources for just about everything for league, but one of the downsides is that often when something "unexpected" becomes even remotely strong, it completely takes over the meta. Good recent examples of this are Soraka/Sona top. Plenty of really strong, quirky stuff still exists out there I assure you, but the problem usually comes when it becomes optimal because then it tends to start causing problems.

We definitely allow for some level of flexbility, where they become a problem is where they harm the overall health of the game and create problems. Ziggs and some other mages being playable bot occasionally? probably not a big deal. Mages being so good that they completely replace marksman bot lane? Definitely a problem because its invalidating the marksman class.

Yeah we allow for some level of flexibility for sure, as long as its not game-breaking or unhealthy. Something like Viego mid or top being comprable to jungle isn't that unhealthy, but obviously if something like Yuumi jungle was good there would be clear gameplay problems.