Appreciate the indepth response as a software programmer myself, pretty cool to see how the lookup references damage values
How many champions have you converted to the modern tools of Data value vs leaving it in the spells scripts would you say?
Personally? Like four. Newer champions, like Samira, are already done in the newest way.
To be fair, this was actually one of the cleaner ways to do it back when he was released.
I'm kind of surprised this was ever the case. Option 3 is how I assumed the game worked from the start.
We didn't have software to cleanly edit JSONs with a good GUI. It was supposedly a mess but I've never looked into it.
Don't you guys do code reviews before checking into source control?
Yeah
I'm down to make Teemo unpurchaseable until we figure this out
Most days I tell myself, "Damn, my teammates are so much smarter than me."
Then I read posts like this.
Hello, thanks for the insights, is interesting, but why did you decide that "MoveSpeedNew" was a good name? The next time someone updates Samira's movement speed buff, will they create a variable called "MoveSpeedNewNew"?
Are you a programmer by any chance? Do the tools not let you refactor, checking for occurrences, like an IDE?
IDK I'm new and my practices are likely sh*t.
Could someone explain what this data values thing is about?
Currently there are about about three ways to tell Ashe W how much damage it deals:
(This is horrible don't do it) - Write down everything in the spell's script. Define a data table with damage values for each rank, tell it to look up what rank the ability is, then tell it to look up your total AD or whatever, then do some math with the AD ratio you've also defined here, and then do some more math, and then deal damage. You also need to send those values to the tooltip via the scripting of the spell, which means you also have to run some sections of the script pretty frequently... Unless you duplicate all your numbers into a data file that only feeds the tooltip and pray you never make a mistake in only editing one of them. If you want to update this damage value you have to re-upload the entire script and remember to also update the data file if applicable. This is extremely "expensive" to micropatch because scripts are often relatively large and they're much risk...
Im waiting for the Nilah Senna
Unironically this lane is CRACKED.
The intention is to poorly convey what the changes will actually be leading up to release?
The patch notes are the actually binding declarations of what is changing about the game. Would you rather not have sneak peeks of work in progress? If so, don’t read the posts. Plenty of people enjoy them and understand that they’re not final.
While I appreciate phreak doing these rundowns and everything part of me hopes they iron out the patches a little bit more before going super in depth on it. Just in this last week they changed the patch for azir and Ashe like 5 times to the point I don’t even know what’s changing anymore and am just going to wait on the patch notes in the client to be sure.
Uh yeah that’s working as intended.
Rumble (Top)
[E] Electro Harpoon magic resistance reduction increased 10% flat >>> 12/14/16/18/20% (danger zone increased 15% flat >>> 24/28/32/36/40% for danger zone)
That's a Trundle ult worth of MR reduction at max rank
The note is wrong. That’s the 2nd harpoon shred. Still increased by 50% for danger zone tho. So max is 60%, up from 30% once it’s maxed.
I can understand rest of the changes, but W ap ratio revert to 0.55 again(Azir) is too harsh, i think.
If you guys want to take his early game performance, then you must provide proper reward in his late game. But now you cut his early game once more, and take even his attack speed passive(so it can't be told that his late game is pure buff), things you turn back are just 0.05 ap ratio buff in Q and 50 base damage buff in W? You really think this is acceptable exchange?
I really hope you reconsider about this. Please let W ap ratio remain as 0.6.
The goal is to get Azir into a state where he is buffable without being 100% pick/ban in pro. So far this year he's been a 50-70% pro presence mid laner, which means we don't have any room to buff him in the hands of everyone else. 13.4 buffed him 1-1.5% win rate. The goal was to do that without buffing pro play, but I'm pretty sure I missed the mark there.
So right now he's up 1.5% win rate compared to 13.3 but expected to also break pro play. If this change list preserves that win rate lift and brings his pro presence back down (again, expectation-wise), then the overall changes would have been successful.
W damage is strictly higher come midgame. The passive turret is substantially more usable. I expect his early game will be nerfed enough that there may be room to just buff him in the near future.
Overall, Azir has substantially better late game over the course of these two patches: Q, W, E, R, and passive are all stronger late game than they were in 13....
Read moreI'm confused. I'm not seeing anywhere here that the active Q is going away. Am I missing something?
There was a version that had Ashe Q as a simple active as opposed to one that required Focus.
Would it still be possible to end up buffing the Q's AD ratio, or was it seen as too risky to give Ashe that much damage? Honestly was just looking for any reason to finally be rid of rageblade.
So here's the weird thing:
I don't think Q should have so much AS on it. Its build-up asks you to build attack speed. If more of the buff's power is then in attack speed, that itemization goes to waste.
However, attack speed is the one sure-fire way to make sure players feel like they've been buffed. Ashe's animation change does a lot to sell the state, all the same. But again, just going risk averse for this one.
I’ll throw my 2 cents in that I was worried about this change. It t feels like part of the intended skill check of the champion is playing around your range and cc to get to your four stacks so you can open up and go nuts for a while. I worry about her feeling unhealthy if she has the freedom to open up with big DPS whenever she wants on top of her great kiting.
Have you guys considered even further nerfing W damage (especially at higher ranks), but then making its damage scale with her passive? The passive damage amp is based on crit chance, so that could make W damage feel decent mid-late for ADC Ashe while being worse for support.
There are likely plenty of tactics available if we wanted to wreck non-AS builds. I'm not sure we have to do so.
I don't like crit as the lever because some Ashe players like going on-hit builds and I don't see a reason to remove that.
So sad. I wanted the active Q.
I feel you. I personally would like it, too. But I'm no longer super confident that it's correct for the champion. A lot of established Ashe players expressed that they like its unique style and ultimately there's no need to be risky here.
FYI Azir and Ashe have fewer changes now.
No base stat changes for Ashe. W is -10 damage instead of cooldown. Q is -20 cost and +2s duration on the buff instead of the other changes.
Azir no longer has +3 base AD, level 1 AS is now .658, W ratio is back to .55, and the W+E cost buffs are gone.
Ashe was just to simplify the change list and enough players liked the old cast paradigm to make it an easy change.
Azir is partially because 3.4 directly buffed him, so numbers had to go down, and the overall goal is to nerf Azir out of the top spot in pro play. I’m more than happy to see us buff him back up if these changes give us room, but the first goal has to be met.
Shouldn’t HoB be getting nerfed first? I feel like she’s gonna be broken anyways until HoB is nerfed early?
Hail of Blades as like six users. IDK, anything more and we may as well delete the rune. Which... maybe is the right call? But not as a random patch change.
I didn't see it listed. But will her mana cost change?
It's 40 or 50 on live and is unchanged.
Awesome! These changes look exactly like what I hoped for a support Ashe nerf. Although I didnt expect the Health nerf for early, I guess she's a bit too safe in lane?
Two things here:
Because she has to be nerfed enough to change pro behavior, I want to push hard enough that they will actually consider her counterable. She's supposed to be natively be weak into champions like Leona, Nautilus, or Pyke since she can't protect either herself or her ally from being chain CC'd and killed. But she has one of the highest base healths in the game. Her numbers now match Varus.
I think in terms of general frustration, W rank 5 cooldown and R cooldown overall are too low for support Ashe. This ends up being a pretty big n...
Read moreCurrent changelist:
Base Stats
Q - Ranger's Focus
W - Volley
R - Enchanted Crystal Arrow
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