PhreakRiot

Casting online is hard since there's an inbuilt delay between what your co-caster says and when you hear it, so I thought Jatt was done one sentence earlier. Definitely "They saw" but I'm OK with you pretending otherwise :)

FWIW, if I have the person correct, Nidalee was made as an homage to his real-life girlfriend. I absolutely don't remember all the details there, but the girlfriend came first. It's kinda like Ashe and Tryndamere marrying. Sure it can make sense in lore, but that's also literally Marc Merrill and his wife.

Honest mistakes happen. That's fair and I shouldn't have assumed your intentions. My apologies.

People sit on Seeker's because upgrading all the way to Zhonya's is not efficient. You're paying for the refreshing stopwatch cooldown, but you'd rather actually use the stopwatch first. Additionally, most midgame scenarios sees players build Fiendish Codex and not the Armguard if they're building one component on their way to a midgame Zhonya's.

Again you're not comparing apples to apples. I said armor is worse than heath per-gold early game. Comparing 900 gold of armor to 800 gold of health is not that comparison.

Sure, but the post was specifically comparing Jaurim's to Seeker's. No one wants to build three cloth armors and a pair of amplifying tomes either. You're still right about slot efficiency, though :)

Health divided by health is an easy one. Just do ratios.

For armor and MR, just add 100 to both sides of the fraction (a champion with 0 armor and 0 mr is still "100%" durable against those damage types). Then just as before, simple ratios.

Just apply to your favorite champion's base stats, and voila.

Hi! This is an example of disingenuous, alarmist, bad math. Shame on you for giving it a 96% upvote ratio, League subreddit.

1. "Look at the gold efficiency I calculated without using all of the stats!"
2. "Look at me comparing it to a different item with no regard for those differences!"

For reference, the item is just over 110% gold efficient at max stacks. Obviously the OP doesn't want to say that. Turns out not accounting for 5 ad (175 gold) on a cheap item is really meaningful. Who would have thought?

Armguard is also not "nearly 160% gold efficient" unless you're in the habit of rounding to the nearest 40%, which no reasonable analyst would. It's ~151%. If you had any goals other than delivering the most biased drivel possible, you'd probably say something like 150% gold efficient, but YOLO, I guess.

Jaurim's also stacks faster. 20 minions vs. 30. It's not a massive difference but it's there. It also builds into more items: Mall...

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I think this is debatable. For example, Vladimir heals even when his Q is spell shielded. I think the idea of "I get my selfish buff even if I don't get to do anything to you" is reasonable against spell shields. That sad, I feel like "I now auto you" is more of an enemy-effect than a self-effect.

Sure, but this is a thread all about high lethality and people being one-shot. Unless you consider four Karthus Q's getting "one-shot" then it doesn't apply to this discussion.

Cooldowns have absolutely gotten lower over the course of League's lifetime. What I'm debating is the burst damage.

I'll be honest, I don't really know. It may be the case. And anecdotally damage items seems more efficient than before. But I've played in a version of the game where Hexdrinker didn't exist and level 1 champions had like 400 HP. So even if it's true, you're really just asking "when has the damage been lower?" and not "Is this the highest damage we've ever had?"

Saying ADC resistances got gutted when all they did was lose 3 armor and gained more health+health-per-level is worse than dishonest.

I think it's a perception issue, yes.

For example, by the end of the old runes/mastery system, most high-level AD Carries ran Resolve (or whatever it was called) as their secondary tree. It's very easy to run Nullifying Orb in Sorcery. We also know that plenty of fighters take Resolve secondary for things like Bone Plating or Second Wind.

I think AD Carries are trained really heavily into sacrificing everything for offense, which is weird, since they're usually happy to dip into Ninja Tabi, Bloodthirster, or Phantom Dancer without a second thought. But they don't typically make this choice in runes.

It's not a ton of data, but Bone Plating has a 55% win rate as a secondary rune on Vayne. By contrast, her most-picked Rune in that slot, Biscuit Delivery, has 53%. Biscuits has about 20x the pick rate of Bone Plating, but there's still over 2,000 games to suggest that Bone Plating's power level is not just random chance. In an attempt to verify that, I looked at...

On a per-slot basis, the average 2020 rune is stronger than the average 2016 mastery. However, there are less total rune slots than there were mastery tiers in the old system. Also, a lot of the generic damage masteries are gone. 2% flat spell damage is a now-missing mastery. In general, this power got rolled into things like Keystone runes. So while you're right that Electrocute damage is higher than TLD damage, the total damage contribution from the rune page is typically not.

She definitely provides more than raw damage. She provides crowd control and is a durable initiator, as is intended by her role. She's certainly quite strong. I'm not debating that. But I think people feel frustrated and try to find something to blame that frustration on. It's just that target isn't base stats after Runes Reforged.

Yeah release Thresh was stupid overpowered.

As for if the game truly has faster teamfights, I'm not completely certain. It can definitely depend on the meta (e.g. are there 3 tanks per team?)

Well, according to u.gg, the most common and winningest Leona rune page is:

Aftershock (25-120 damage +8% bonus HP), Font of Life (not damage), Bone Plating (not damage), Overgrowth (not damage), Biscuit Delivery (not damage), Cosmic Insight (not damage), +1-10% CDR based on level (not damage), +6 armor (not damage), and +15-90 Health based on level (not damage).

Meanwhile, this was Ignar's Leona page at Worlds 2017: https://i.imgur.com/fTMiN0u.png

You tell me.

I know in general burst damage feels more satisfying and more powerful than damage over time. DfT was frequently more damage than Thunderlord's, let people took the latter. Malzahar, Brand, and Zyra are routinely overtuned, yet people think they're balanced or weak because they don't see them very often. Really they're just not as satisfying because the damage isn't as obvious.

I think a good direction, and one that's happening, is to reduce the number of DoTs but also occasionally reduce the burst and instead lower cooldowns. Getting to take more total actions, tune them to be satisfying, and find damage numbers where combat remains skillful.

For example, as we mentioned, Leona's burst damage is lower. Her actual burst damage is lower even with Aftershock. Instead, her cooldowns on Q/W/E have gotten lower. Certainly, her overall teamfight footprint is higher, but I don't think that's what people are complaining about. The quote in this thread is "getting one-shot."...

In the case of specifically when does non-linear scaling go below the old baseline? Around levels 6-12, but by pretty small margins. Mind you, this change was still back in 2014 so good luck remembering exactly how the abilities all felt 5 and a half years ago.

Yeah good call. I keep forgetting it's 2020 and so when I subtract 10 years in my head I hit 2003 instead of 2013

Riot reduced ADC base armor and compensated them with health. Champions like Leona and Nautilus deal primarily magic damage.

Like, I'm all for analyzing history and system changes and all of that. But when I can look up literally every single change that Ashe or Leona had and say, "Nope, in 2020 Ashe lives through a combo that would have killed her in 2013" then I really don't think this argument has a good-faith basis.

And to be clear, there may well be different systems changes that have increased damage across the game. But they're not in runes reforged and they're not in support tanks.