RiotAxes

RiotAxes



17 Dec

Comment

Originally posted by iHaveRyzenAbove

Our next two projects are Janna and Ahri early in the year, two previously popular champions who have fallen out of favor lately.

I'm not a big fan of this reasoning. I don't think Riot should change champions exclusively to make them more popular. If there are other reasons, sure, but increasing popularity only winds up hurting champion mains in the longrun. It's not like either of them are super unpopular either.

The cycle of reworks -> the champion becoming meta so you can't play them as much -> overnerfs that leave the champ worse than they were originally isn't an enjoyable one if you main a champion.

I don't think Riot should change champions exclusively to make them more popular.

I agree with this statement. It's hard to get much nuance into a blog post with this many topics.

In the case of Ahri and Janna, we're working on them because we believe that players who they have previously resonated with aren't enjoying them as much anymore. The goal is make them feel fun and well-supported. We do expect that if we succeed with this work, they'll be more popular, but that's a secondary effect.

I do want to be careful talking about concepts like who champions ought to resonate with - there are a lot of confounding factors and in Janna's case survivor bias is a real concern - she has lost approximately 50% of her pick rate since we pushed her lane phase so hard towards repeatable point-and-click harass, which implies that a lot of people who previously enjoyed Janna were hurt by those changes, but certainly some (most?) of her current...

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12 Nov

Comment

Originally posted by OtterBall

To me this feels so frustrating. My friend and I were talking about it last night where we feel as if most of the game just winds up being coin flips late since everyone can catch up so easily. Back in the earlier Seasons if you stomped Lane you could translate that advantage into other wins across the map, but now it just feels so punishing to leave since you can't even set up a proper freeze.

I get stomps aren't fun, but it also makes the game feel less competitive

Is the suggestion that the game should be more snowbally/more decided by who wins lanes?

Comment

It's definitely not forgotten. The goal of the change was to reduce the proportion of games where one team has an insurmountable advantage, but no incentive to close out quickly. The actual results were a net reduction in average game time between 30 seconds and a minute, and a substantial increase in the overall rate of comebacks, implying that decisive advantages resolve into either victory or a comeback much faster than before (and more of them result in comebacks).

And yes, if you're deeply invested in wave management as your way of expressing dominance, you might be sad at the reduction in consistency / effectiveness of that particular strategy.


03 Nov

Comment

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

Hey Axes, could I ask how you feel about her overall balance state rn, I recall her ban rate being relatively high

Every new champion pulls a high ban rate for the first few patches - need to see where it goes. She's still relatively new. Her winrate is high but within reasonable bounds. If it goes up significantly we'd probably be discussing nerfs, but I don't believe she's on our radar right now.

Beyond that, have to see how preseason impacts her, and if she's prominent in pro play.

Comment

This data is reasonably consistent with the internals I've seen, though I haven't seen an internal investigation into this exact hypothesis. Just to add a little to this: per internal data, the net effect is that Vex is significantly better (i.e. wins more games) against mobile champions and worse against immobile ones.

She's on target for our internal shotcalls - when you read the kit, you should conclude she's better against mobile champions in midlane; she should in fact be better against mobile champions; and the degree to which she is a counterpick is in line with counterpicks generally, i.e. both players have a rich game to play and she doesn't completely invalidate her lane opponent but is definitely favored. On top of that, she's significantly more popular than we projected.


07 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

Could you share some of the thinking behind giving Vex a dash ult, it seems a little odd for a burst mage to want to get up close and personal with champs, unless she is more like a battle mage like swain

It definitely is a bit odd. There's a few things going on:

  • From a gameplay perspective, we had to make Vex comfortable playing at shorter ranges for the anti-mobility stuff, so closing to short range is less of a cost than for most Mages, which made this a unique opportunity to do this gameplay on a mage.
  • From a thematic perspective, Shadow is something like Vex's id - the part that cares passionately about stuff (i.e. making people miserable), that Vex never wants to let show because caring is lame. R is basically mega Lee Sin Q - and like Lee Sin Q, once you hit the first missile, psychological pressure builds to recast it, it's hard not to recast, which dovetails nicely as an experience with Shadow egging Vex on. It's a little bit off her first read personality, but still fits within the broader character.
  • It's a super fun spell, so we were pretty excited to ship it all along, even if it's a somewhat off class moment. That said, we spent significa...
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Comment

Originally posted by ToTheNintieth

gotcha, runaan's rush vex it is

You heard it here first.

and probably last.

Comment

Originally posted by Snowcrest

It's easy to see that champ designers deliberately went with dashes as opposed to including blinks as well.

If possible, I'd love to understand the considerations/implications that would occur if Vex's kit also included blinks. Was it ever on the table? How did internal testing go?

Totally understandable if you can't reply here, but I'm sure alot of us would appreciate it if this facet of the design process was included in an edition of champion insights.

Thanks!

It does apply on blinks, actually. Sorry for that confusion.

Comment

Originally posted by ToTheNintieth

I wonder if Gloom has a per-champion cooldown, or your low-CD dash champs will have to live with getting marked constantly.

It's the latter, but you do need to get a hit in between each dash.

Comment

Originally posted by Snowcrest

Keep in mind proccing Gloom is only a CD reduction on Doom (the fear). It seems extremely unlikely for it to be a complete reset, and stands to be that you might need 2 Gloom at least to reset Doom.

Champions refund 25%, minions refund 10% (obviously these are both tuning values so could change)

Comment

Originally posted by afito

The mobility creep would be far less obscene if you could have more chances to play / draft around it, Dota style. Grounded & anti shield are both mechanics I've long thought Riot should carefully expand.

Grounded would need some major clarity concerns addressed before I'd be happy to push it any further.

Comment

Originally posted by the_fredblubby

Why do you think it resulted in more comebacks? Surely it makes the game more snowbally, as being ahead gives you a larger advantage (hence the faster winning ofc), which to me sounds like it should decrease the number of comebacks. And once you've equalised gold diff so you're the ones getting minion buffs, at that point you've already come back anyway, shouldn't be affected by the enemy team having had better minions, right?

It is a cool feature though

It moves the minion wave towards the losing team's base, which provides more opportunities for the winning team to actually crack the base, but also means the losing team on average doesn't have to move as far out of safety to get gold, and attempting to crack the base means taking a risk.

Comment

Originally posted by ADeadMansName

The idea was pretty good but I think not tweaking it for years made it a bit less optimal over time.

Also a problem that sadly wasn't solved over years is the minion clash timing in side vs mid lane making mid lane just way more important on top of being the most important already. It also makes mid lane roaming way more easily compared to side lane roaming.

The idea was pretty good but I think not tweaking it for years made it a bit less optimal over time.

Agree that it has likely degraded over time.

Comment

Minion pushing changes, where minions get more powerful vs other minions for the team with a lead. Hard to feel or notice, but shaved about 30 seconds off average game time, yet led to an overall increase in the number of games with comebacks - teams either won faster or lost their lead faster.

Aside: Don't know whether to be alarmed or happy about the number of these where I was one of the designers pushing for it.


06 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by Sona_Legendarius

u/RiotAxes

I agree that characters like Akshan and Rell have nothing to do with anime. Honestly, I dislike when people mention anime because it distracts from this point: "conventionally attractive". That's because, bar a few exceptions, characters of recent years were attractive. This was mentioned in the famous blog Of Men and Monsters.

I understand they drive engagement, but... like sure they do, but it does not mean this is how design should operate. Sure, I'll buy a sexy character and play her/him, but does it mean to make things change I have to drop them? Because my engagement for those characters might be, say, 7 out of 10, but when someone else, with more unconventional design comes, it'll be 10 out of 10.

Should the game really be about engaging as many people as possible even if for most it is 7 out of 10 instead of choosing groups (however small) of players where it'd be 10 out of 10 even if for many it'll be just 3 out...

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Fair enough. We do have a young/conventionally attractive champion coming up, but I think the next 6 months - and honestly, the whole next year - strike a pretty good balance. I'm happy with each individual piece of content the team has put out, but we're looking to bring a bit more balance to things from a more holistic view.


03 Sep

Comment

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

I'd love to know what was his primary gameplay hook, since he seems like a relatively tame and simplistic release as well as how did you guys come upon the idea for Grit, since it's been a while since a new resource was made

Sure.

He started as "Grappler" and as a designed Juggernaut (we hadn't done a new Juggernaut since Darius except Illaoi, whose gameplay hits on fairly different hooks and resonates with a bit different audience). That also informed the desire to keep him simple to play, and the contrast with some of the releases around him - he was the champ after Aphelios - made a simple champ especially desirable.

Early explorations focused on ways to have him grab, throw, and chain combos together. When it became clear that that champion was a tank, not even really a hybrid juggernaut, he pivoted towards street-fighting style mixed martial arts (still a bit grappler but a lot more punching). This dovetailed nicely with his c*cky, arrogant personality, which then informed what I'd say is his elevator pitch - "Strong, arrogant fighter who is going to let you hit him first because he's so confident that he can afford to give you the first swing." If Pantheon is all about courage, S...

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Comment

Originally posted by ShadedOffline

I agree with you, however I have a theory that Seraphine was a Marketing department idea and they forced you guys to make a champion to sell skins in two weeks, so you had sona's rework laying around and were like "welp, this could work I guess". Then hired an intern to write her story and he was paid in redbull. That would explain the abomination to storytelling and character design that champion is.

rant over.

theory that Seraphine was a Marketing department idea

I realize that nothing I can say is going to convince you here, but Seraphine was an authentic character first. She was most certainly not created as a marketing stunt or a skins vehicle.

Comment

Originally posted by Spideraxe30

Hey Axes, are you able to share some info about Sett's dev, since I recall you owned him before moving to TFT

What do you want to know?

Comment

Originally posted by bz6

Riot Axes: Bet

🤣

Na but for real, look at this wholesome? Reaction to a champion that isn’t a copy paste to appeal to China aesthetic. Speaks volumes. Anyways, with the new legislation limiting hours for teenagers game time in China can we stop bending the knee? 😅 We know what the artists are capable of and besides the disposable lore, we know how creative the art team is and we want them unshackled.

/u/RiotAxes

It was never driven by China the way you're suggesting. These aesthetics resonate with large numbers of players in all regions. We will certainly do more of them. They just shouldn't be all that we make.

Slightly concerning that so many different aesthetics get lumped together as 'anime' as a catch-all, by the way. Akshan, Rell, Samira, and Lillia certainly are not anime visual designs; Gwen has some anime influence but a lot of influences that aren't anime. It sometimes seems like "anime" in this context just means "conventionally attractive" + "it didn't resonate with me personally".

Comment

Originally posted by AmWhaleIRL

Wow that's so interesting, thanks for the insight! I'd love to ask more questions on Gaming VFX, mostly on how/where to get started, what's needed to make a career out of it, etc. But I imagine this may not be your specialty. Is there anybody you know who I could pick the brain of?

I don't, unfortunately. That's far enough from my area of expertise that I wouldn't be comfortable endorsing any of the resources I could find.