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TO THE MOON! 🚀
It was one of the highest, wouldn't the ad being lowered change that?
AFAIK the cost got reduced 200g and the AD reduced by 5. 5 AD is worth ~175 gold, so it actually got more efficient
The item is slept on. It has the same stats as youmuus but 200G cheaper. Also the passive is worth if they have any shields at all. If the supp gives a tiny 50hp shield from aery, serpents does like 200 extra damage to that target
Yeah I think people get pretty hung up on the passive and ignore the fact that it is one of the highest damage/gold purchases you can buy as a lethality user (post-mythic). If a team has any shields at all and you're an assassin, you should be thinking about this item.
But the goal isn’t to make Q max the optimal route right? It’s just to put it more inline with the her other abilities? Because I can get behind that, but I have a slight problem with the designer having a preferential skill order.
The designer has less of a preferential skill order, and more of a way he designed the champ to feel, and when Q feels bad it's something that'd be nice to address. Really that simple, and like you said, it's just to bring it in line.
Why do you want to control what people are maxing? What’s the point of artificially making a certain skill order “correct”, she’s a support why would you want to max the damage ability, when you could max utility?
I have mentioned it somewhere else, but it's not because we want them to specifically have more damage, it's because we want all 4 abilities to feel like they are pulling their weight, and unfortunately Q doesn't feel like it when it's not maxed. (W and E still do, as like you said, they are heavy CC/resist utility).
With that said (if you are allowed to say that is)
Have the potential changes just been scrapped overall or are they still in development? or it's just you really don't know about it period :o
I appreciate the initial response nevertheless and your time Yonggi.
I genuinely have no idea. Admittedly I don't play veigar (or really much mid in general) so I don't spend much brainpower keeping up with or chasing down changes in that space specifically.
So is Riot's "ideal" optimal max order Q > E > W or Q > W > E?
I totally understand the hesitation to add more power into the kit, you've sold me on the nerfs to w and e (though the ap ratio buffs still scare me). Have you guys looked at giving more single target value and diminishing returns for multiple targets? My problem with the ability is how much of the power is based on hitting multiple targets, which isn't always super easy to utilize in plat+
The designer mainly just wants Q to feel good. In games lately the feedback on Q has been that it feels wimpy because people max W (which is correct). In dev we maxed Q for most of it because the tuning was such that Q max was correct, but shortly before release I believe we added some power to W max and it overtook it.
First, quick off topic question: is there a reason why your website and client do not display the actual stats of abilities for champs? Feel like I shouldn't have to go to other sites to see these stats. It should be on the actually League of Legends site or client. Looking at both, I do not see the actual stats of the abilities in client or website.
Second, the heal just feels absolutely abysmal if you want to do a q max, especially early. As someone who wants to main her, those numbers just do not feel appealing enough to say "I want to max q over w" unless you decide not to build her as a tank and build full ap to compensate the lack of healing. Unless you think the appeal for the q doesn't lie in the healing for a support champion with an ability that heals.
Idk the real reason we don't publish those stats, I imagine it's because other sites exist that are close enough (using our API) so re-inventing the wheel isn't a great use of our manpower.
The heal is pretty strong as it scales with missing HP, so in an all-in with Q max you can get 100-300 eHP in early all-ins bottom lane if you hit good Q's (especially multi-hit). I agree for poke+lane sustain it's not great, and it's not meant to be the use-case.
Do you by any chance happen to know what Veigar changes are in the works?
No clue atm. I know we have larger item system changes in the works for 11.3 (including mages) that Veigar might like, otherwise not sure where we are at on him.
Are there plans to buff q, then? Or, as you stated above, are you trying to skew/force people to max q?
I think our impression is that Q rank-ups are already pretty good (It's current optimal to max W then Q), so just nudging W rank-ups down slightly so that Q can shine more. Hesitant to buff Q rank ups because we should really not be risking giving her more win-rate.
Thank you, I mostly just wanted to hear a rioter explain what the changes were for because these look a lot like forcing her to be an ap mage/bruiser.
While nerfing her is reasonable, the phrasing of "Q max being correct" is a little confusing to me. Q feels bad to use due to its high cast time and how much power of it is focused in the shieldbreak/heal. I don't like maxing it because of just how useless it is in lane outside of skirmishes.
Basic idea around the Q thing was that Q feels really wimpy if not max'd, but W feels effective no matter what, so the character can feel more visceral/punchy if Q max was what people did more often, as it increases the damage and healing per point.
AFAIK the goal of the change-list (which I'm not even sure is final) is to very slightly nerf her (she's statistically sitting at 52% (all elo) and 53.5% (plat+) atm with some room left to grow), and also skew her slightly back towards Q max being correct by weakening the durability gained with each W point. The AP ratios are mostly just extra and aren't much power at all unless going Shurelyas as the other guy mentioned.
Hehehe
If they actually made Kraken work with it I think that's all it'd take.
Yeah we intentionally didn't do that, because then if you're a rageblade user, you're automatically stuck taking Kraken because of innate synergy.
All on-hit ADCs like Runaan's, so it should be about 60% crit chance.
And, either way, the idea isn't to keep stacking crit items if you pick Rageblade. It's the opposite: you are supposed to build it when your champion is going to sit on low crit chance, so you convert that somewhat 'undesirable' stat into something consistent and of value.
Rageblade's design is fine, the problem is on the numbers. They nerfed both the cost and the damage output from it, 'cause on-hit ADCs were outperforming their crit peers in early pre-season.
Now that IE got adjusted to be a better 3rd item and other crit items got some buffs, they should roll back the nerfs they gave to Rageblade.
Agree with this dude. I think we have the levers and mechanics in place to pull this item into viability, just a matter of pulling them. I actually planned to do some analysis/number crunching this week/weekend on this item to see what's up and where exactly the power is missing.
Wait... did that actually happen or am I too naive? No way.
Lol unfortunately it did. August asked me what one of my least favourite metas were. I said the tank ekko/fizz/everyone meta, where moment to moment gameplay didn't matter. Then he replied "Ooof, my bad".
Wait...what's the catch? You even mentioned Ekko without bringing up his tank build or R CD!
I couldn’t even make it out of my interview without mentioning his tank build... that still makes me cringe lol
Okay
What about champions on the other end of the spectrum? According to u.gg Veigar has a 44.74% winrate in diamond+, 42.96% in d2+, and 47.65% in plat+.
Is the data inaccurate and he is actually doing ok? Like near 50? Playing him FEELS really bad atm. ass well as some others are the bottom of the winrate table.
Yeah we will be "reverse wack-a-mole-ing" as well and buffing up champs that need it. Not sure about Veigar specifically (winter break and all that) but we will be doing our regular buffs/nerfs.