Do you think a Shiv that was more similar to Luden's (in a smaller area, rather than a chain) would differentiate it more from Runaan's? I really enjoy the theory behind Energized builds, but they've never seemed practical.
Potentially. The issue will always be that runaan/shiv were not first item purchases due to their stat profiles, and waveclear is most valuable at first item purchase. The solution may be a waveclear mythic that's more AD skewed.
How does the interaction work with Viego and Master Yi who both have kind of a psuedo double hit?
It will double proc the CDR.
Considering Rabadons is supposed to be the AP version of Infinity Edge, are there thoughts about creating a second counterpart to it, much like this?
I would love for us to do so, there are currently no plans but might be a great place for us to explore in the future.
Just throwing my two cents out there:
It's a little unintuitive to create new language 'must have purchased 60% crit chance...'
When other thresholds for efficacy (warmogs / HP) already exist.
Is there any thought or concern with the continued addition of new language / exceptions?
It's very easy to end up with a mess of spaghetti, and I think that that is something that should be considered.
If you have thought about this, I would love to hear them!
Yeah we will probably try to find a better way to word it in the final version. I have a meeting tomorrow where I'll try to brainstorm ideas for simplifying.
This is an item that gives Tryndamere a lot of agency and ability to function in today's meta. By effectively removing this from him, is there any plan to give him a look over if his winrate drops as a result?
We certainly will
Cool change for sure! What have playtests with this on Samira looked like?
Have not stress tested Samira yet as she seemed like more of a stretch user due to getting good value out of IE
Any considerations that GP now has one less AD/Crit item to build, and likewise for other crit champions that don’t want AS? (Before you hit 100% crit with prowlers by buying Collector, LDR, IE, Essece Reaver and Navori)
This is a known pain point, the issue however is we currently have 6 (well, 5 after navori change) legendaries you can buy with Crit+AD (the ones you listed and BT), which is plenty. It's possible we are supposed to add a mythic without AS but did not yet.
Has the team considered removing the need for laners having to leash their junglers? Quite frankly having to leash vs someone that did not is very frustrating in specific matchups and having this removed would be a good change for the jungle and laners.
Leashing should be less essential in the new jungle with the pets doing a % of the damage, but overall that's a good place for us to look next.
Ooohh ok gotcha. So it adds additional damage to your spells (not ATTACKS - Just abilities) based a percentage of your crit chance?
Does this apply as an "on hit" effect? Just curious how this is all going to work. Seems interesting though. Would love this if it were to apply to both his on Xayahs Q for example.
Would apply to both hits of Xayah Q. It's not an on-hit, just a flat increase in damage kinda like other damage amps in the game like PTA
Would the cap being at 60% be too much? I feel like even if you're Varus charging a full WQ on a blighted opponent, just 12% on QR (do blight procs count for QB ?) might not make up for the lost damage from IE (I mean, not that you'd ever go crit atm bc our magnificent lord and savior, AP Varus, and on-hit being just plain better than crit rn) Though I guess that's what pbe is for. Love that lost items are getting a touch-up !
The crit damage is supplementary to the increased CDR. You have haste on the item, haste refund, AND bonus damage on spells. So whatever % increase in damage you get from crit is exponentially increased because you get more casts.
I see. But does it have to be exclusive for it to be an alternative? I assume it has to be exclusive otherwise a majority of crit builders would build both, leaving really only 1 slot for different items apart from changing build order.
But even currently navori full crit has the highest dps out of any build on champions who’s kits flow with aa’s like xayah or lucian but is not built due to how expensive it is and the lack of utility/defence the build provides. So is it really necessary for it to be exclusive?
Sorry i just really like big damage numbers
The general gist is that Navori is worse than IE on live. So we are lifting Navori to IE's level and making them exclusive. If we had them non-exclusive, Navori would have to be weaker OR we'd be further improving Marksman 4 item builds (which is the opposite of where they need power right now).
How does it work with spells that can crit on their own while still counting as spells, like Zeri W, Samira ult etc? Do you get double benefit on those?
Assuming those spells also proc comet (which I think they do), you get double benefit yes.
Any opinions on potentially making Energizer a more viable build archetype and not just a handful of different effects that just happen to share the same mechanic?
As it stands, Fleet kind of synergizes because the movespeed lets you stack it slightly faster but it's not really impactful enough to be worth taking on many of the champs who would like it for the Energizer portion, and instead is taken simply for the sustain. RFC helps a lot and is probably the most on-brand but because the other (only) two components are weak it's really only used as a general utility item. Stormrazor is very basic but very solid but is generally just too weak to be worth it atm.
Bringing back Statikk Shiv (for waveclear and teamfight damage) and/or another Energizer item, and making stacking Energy beneficial (maybe it increases how fast they charge?) would give a lot of champs like Caitlyn, Jhin, etc. a good alternate build path for their pokey and less DPS-oriented playsty...
When energize was first introduced (when I first joined Riot coincidentally, one of my first projects) what we found was Energize builds technically worked but were not popular even when pretty powerful. In addition, tuning them around each other (useless when alone, powerful when together) led to problems with builds diversity pre-mythic items.
With that said, I agree RFC and stormrazor could potentially get some tweaks to make them more exciting. We removed statik shiv because it was a (slightly) less interesting Runaans and we already have 4+ zeal items.
ER Navori double crit cloak. Or Navori triple crit cloak.
Calling it now, something (either Lucian or quickblades) is going to get nerfed because of one of these 2 builds
Screenshotted
In seasons 1-3 before anyone had the game optimized, jungle was more popular since the barrier to entry was lower.
how was this true? the list of champions who could even clear camps early was extremely limited whereas now its virtually every single champion on the roster. back then you needed to manage your spending around vision and your build, now you need to buy nothing but your build. and back then you needed to track timers without any in game tools whatsoever. but apparently more people played when the role was more difficult, and making it even easier now will make it better after 10 years of simplifying the role?
Because in seasons 1-3 people didn't know how to play. If we left the jungle EXACTLY the same since season 3, jungle mains would have optimized it to the same degree as the current one.
The point is that the gap between mains and newcomers to the role is GIGANTIC in jungle compared to the other roles in the game. We are aiming to remedy that.
But why add specific timers for wards? I believe that change can be discussed. Better team communication? Well we have a ping, we don't need to know exact ward timers. It'll just slow down the game too much..
Because if I ping a ward once, I'm not going to ping it over and over until it dies or glance up at the time, add X seconds, type in chat the location, all while laning so my jungler will come. This should be a streamlined version of that same interaction, you need to have seen the ward go down and you can communicate the information with your team automatically through the ping.
Reducing jungle leashing range (admittedly an obscure mechanic) and thus the difference between a practiced and unpracticed clear does make the role less skillful though. There are plenty of time when even pros dont execute the jungle clear correctly and you feel the difference between good and bad clears. Taking that away is taking away a means for players to differentiate themselves.
These things are targeted partly because they aren't learnable in-game. If I'm doing my own thing in my jungle and the enemy is double camping and chaining camps into each other every camp, all I see at scuttle spawn is they are a camp or two up and I don't understand. Those kinds of micro optimizations that aren't interactive nor learnable are targeted primarily.
It's VERY common that people will refuse to jungle (especially when autofilled) because they just don't know how to clear effectively and being behind the opponent from the offset of the game due to that is historically very discouraging for players new to the role/game.
Characters that double camp will be likely tuned around single camping. While I 100% agree that skill will be removed by double camping being removed/nerfed, this optimization was one of the "very difficult to learn, especially within the game" mechanics that we were opting to remove for simplicity. If we find that Fiddle, Lillia, etc are significantly nerfed by this adjustment, they will be adjusted. The issue just comes down to these micro optimizations that are practically unlearnable for anyone not watching youtube videos in their spare time.
I believe the recommended pathing will be toggle-able in the settings so that it's not obstructive to those that don't need it.
I forgot to mention, you can still pull camps to kill them with DoT on your way to the next camp. That functionality is largely unchanged. Keeping two camps right next to each other is the functionality changed mainly.
These jungle changes imply 2 big worries for jungle mains that I don't see addressed anywhere in the post.
Decreased Leash Length: How will this impact champs who clear multiple camps at once such as Fiddle, or anyone trying to do Gromp and Blue Buff at the same time? I'm all for trying to make jungle more accessible, but if these changes make it impossible to take multiple camps at once, then that means these changes would be actively removing skill from the jungle.
- ...
Recommended Jungle Pathing: How "in your face" will the recommended pathing be in-game? While yes, experienced junglers will know when to deviate from the recommended path, if the recommended path is super obnoxious then it will make jungle incredibly annoying to play for people who previously loved the role. This could easily be fixed by allowing people to turn off Recommended Pathing somewhere in the client.
Characters that double camp will be likely tuned around single camping. While I 100% agree that skill will be removed by double camping being removed/nerfed, this optimization was one of the "very difficult to learn, especially within the game" mechanics that we were opting to remove for simplicity. If we find that Fiddle, Lillia, etc are significantly nerfed by this adjustment, they will be adjusted. The issue just comes down to these micro optimizations that are practically unlearnable for anyone not watching youtube videos in their spare time.
I believe the recommended pathing will be toggle-able in the settings so that it's not obstructive to those that don't need it.
Any plan on potentially letting Senna buy this new Navori via her passive, or is she gonna also have to buy 60% crit with everyone else?
No plan at the moment but we will be discussing locking in those rules very soon.
devtrackers.gg