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This rioter is officially my favourite. Excellent changes. Thank you so much Riot Axes. Imagine if his playrate increases again because of this! Also do you know if Sivir will be getting an adjustment? u/RiotAxes
No news on Sivir, sorry.
This rioter is officially my favourite. Excellent changes. Thank you so much Riot Axes. Imagine if his playrate increases again because of this! Also do you know if Sivir will be getting an adjustment? u/RiotAxes
No news on Sivir, sorry.
Changes:
Ravenous Flock (P)
[REMOVED] Swain can no longer pull crowd-controlled enemies.
[REMOVED] Swain's pull no longer deals damage.
Healing :: 4/5.5/7% (levels 1/6/11) maximum health >>> 4/5.5/7%/9% (levels 1/6/11/16) maximum health
Health Per Soul Fragment :: 5 >>> 12
Death's Hand (Q)
Mana Cost :: 65/70/75/80/85 >>> 45/50/55/60/65
Cooldown :: 9/7.5/6/4.5/3s >>> 7/6/5/4/3s
Damage :: 55/75/95/115/135 (+40% AP) >>> 60/80/100/120/140 (+40% AP)
Additional Bolt Damage :: 15/20/25/30/35% >>> 12/22/32/42/52 (+10% AP)
Previous Equivalent Damage :: 8.25/15/23.75/34.5/47.25 (+6/8/10/12/14% AP)
Maximum Damage :: 88/135/190/253/324 (+64/72/80/88/96% AP) >>> 108/168/228/288/348 (+80% AP)
Vision Of Empire (W)
Mana Cost :: 70/80/90/100/110 >>> 60/65/70/75/80
[NEW] Pings now display enemies in range similar to Twisted Fate (R...
Read more External link →Does the balance team give you a list of points to cover for each change? I'm curious about how that part of the note-writing process works
Kind of! Once the upcoming patch changes are locked in the Summoner's Rift team will provide a document detailing every change (as well as explanations) and will then work with me and Ahrisoo to answer any questions we have while writing them into the patch notes. It's a very collaborative process, so there's a lot of back and forth to make sure the wording is accurately representing the changes themselves/explanations of the changes for anyone reading them (whether you're in Bronze or Challenger). Hope this helps answer your question!
Could I also ask if it is intentional that his R is capped at 2.5 seconds at extension, since that kinda reduces the fantasy of a potentially infinite R
100% intentional. A very long R is meant to be a rare, when-the-stars-align kind of situation.
We have specifically been testing to ensure that he has R casts that are shorter, similar, and longer than his live duration, and that decisions made by both Olaf and his opponents determine how it turns out.
I especially enjoyed the Gwen paragraph! The way you knit in 4 puns, while still making your points was really knots…. I mean nuts
Thank you! I wish I wrote that one, but that was the other patch notes author, Ahrisoo! Can't believe she strung so many puns together!
Its probably not that simple. His early game passive is significantly nerfed and he also lost CD and early base damage on Q. That will probably have a significant effect on his early clear speed. His early dueling should also be nerfed by that (the armor shred on Q isn't super relevant early), though the lifesteal on passive might offset that somewhat, not sure. I suspect it will be a buff overall, but its not without some potentially impactful tradeoffs.
The bet is that between a meaningfully slower early clear speed and an R reshape that is both worse at diving ADCs and worse at running away when caught out, he has room to be balanced around solo queue first rather than pro play first, and if he's being balanced around solo queue, we have room for large buffs.
But forecasting balance on updates like this is hard and it's fully possible he'll need followup balance, as with any update.
Numbers look a bit overtuned but overall solid stuff
Just to speak to the tuning -
It's fully possible he's overtuned and if he is, he'll get nerfed (though its very unlikely we'd be able to discover this on PBE, where games are so wildly uneven). This update has enough change that it's just hard to forecast.
I will note that if we didn't have concerns about what he does in pro play, we would buff him substantially tomorrow. This iteration of the champion's clear speed is significantly slower than on Live (still fast, but much slower), which is a significant pro play impact, and while his R is way cooler scrapping in melee against other melee champions, he'll be both more kiteable when diving ADCs and less able to run away, both of which ought to be important for pro players.
The bet is that this frees us up for really significant buffs at every other skill level. That bet could fail - if it turns out he's still the priority pro jungler when tuned to reasonable winrates then we're in trouble...
Read moreMultiseason challenger olaf one trick here, i really love these changes, making him more tanky by making him keep his resists in a meta where there is so much damage is a good change. Especially in duels, a lot of the time you didnt press R just because it felt like it would just make you weaker by reducing your resists and removing the toxic part of his W that enhanced the healing and replacing it by other sustain tools is a GREAT change, allowing him to scale in the late game with armor shred is super great. But what's the idea behind increasing the minimum range on his Q ?
Ah, that one's kind of subtle.
So, if I'm going to give you the possibility of infinitely being immune to crowd control, that is very likely to result in situations where the fight is a perfect stat check - able to be calculated in advance - for opponents who can't dash away to break contact. The min range change exists so that Olaf has to forecast his position a little bit in advance, essentially adding counterplay because when he throws Q, if you move away from the Q, he has to choose whether to pick it up or not, and that choice has real consequences to the outcome of the fight from that point on. (Incidentally, part of the reason for adding armor shred on Q is to ensure that picking up the axe really matters to whether he wins the fight or not - don't want him just ignoring it)
I realize it's going to feel bad, but if I reverted it I think I'd also have to cap the ult at 7 seconds or something like that :/
EDIT: This is mainly talking about mele...
Read moreChanges look really cool, could I ask why you guys decide to make his durability less sustain bound, was it because he was just too stat checky with it
The R change reduces his free access to diving targets (it can go infinite - but if you're being kited around, it won't). If he's not as guaranteed to be able to dive the back line successfully, he needs his alternate game plan to be better, which means the tools to not just auto-lose fights on the front line.
Hey boss. I have a more holistic angle when it comes to my questions regarding these changes.
Directionally, I was always under the impression that Olaf is not a great scaler into the later game. Do you feel these changes go against that scaling profile?
That being said, what is the stance of the team when it comes to potentially homogenising scaling identities across the board? Personally I think it goes against what LoL stands for and greatly reduces aspect of the game like strategy, team comps, and sharp champion identity.
From our playtesting, he's less bad late game, but still not very good (even for a Juggernaut) - contrast his teamfight power to Sett, Darius, or Illaoi, for example.
Right now I don't think we have a strong stance about it. We aren't trying to homogenize it, but we aren't resisting it too strongly - it's more about what is right for a particular champion. If we go very far towards homogenization, then we'd need to deal with that, but we still do shotcall things like a very extreme late game curve for Gwen, and some of our other midscopes in flight aren't moderating scaling curves like this one is.
The Olaf mid scope update is coming to PBE today with an intended ship date of patch 12.9 (not 12.8). Putting him up early for feedback, so he should be on PBE for about a week, and then he’ll disappear as we prep patch 12.8. He’ll return to PBE when we kick off the 12.9 cycle.
Before getting into the actual changes, let’s talk goals. One common response to the initial announcement was confusion as to why he’d be next up on the list for an update.
Olaf has a number of urgent issues we’re looking to address. First, he is (and has consistently been) the least deeply played champion in League—on average, that is (Olaf one tricks don’t @ me.) If Olaf is a champion you play, he probably makes up the lowest percent of your games played, and has consistently been among the lowest for many years now. Second, he’s a deeply pro-bound champion: his win rate is kept lower than would otherwise be ideal because he tends to take over pro play when his kit is tuned to win games in...
Read more External link →No matter how much I dislike the changes, the writer of these patch notes makes me still look forward to reading them.
Thank you so much, this comment really made my day! I don't make the balance changes myself, but I try my best to give everyone sufficient context to the changes being made (while adding in some humor here and there).
PANTHEON Base health regen decreased. Tap Q range and width increased.
Typo for any rioter reading, width decreased, not increased.
Thank you for letting me know!
Do patch notes mean patch is out now, or are they done like a day or so in advance?
Patch notes typically come out the day before the new patch goes live! This (usually) means the patch notes come out every other Tuesday and the patch goes live on the following Wednesday. You can check out the full 2022 Patch Schedule here if interested
Wow I was gonna make the game better and then I read this.
You buy QSS because you want to cleanse CC.
I buy QSS because it builds into the only item that offers both crit chance and MR.
We are not the same.
QSS is for situations where a CC spell makes you stop dealing damage. Renata ult does not make you stop dealing damage. Simple enough, right?
Insane play from the Bard
What a god
Not going to comment on whether or not DD is OP, but the stats you're referencing aren't the best way to determine item power.
Items bought later in the game tend to have higher winrates (you're more likely to be winning when you can afford a 3rd slot item) and the pickrate stat on that site is partially influenced by champion popularity (an item that Lee Sin builds will have higher popularity because Lee Sin is in a lot of games)
A better way to compare item power is to compare winrates and pickrates VS. other items in the same slot on the same champion. There's always hiccups though when you factor in things like item price (expensive items are harder to get so they tend to have higher winrates), counter items (how strong should an item be when it is ONLY bought to counter something), and snowball items (how strong should an item be when it is ONLY bought when winning).
...and does your answer change if the ADC has a QSS and you know he isn't going to use it?