devtrackers.gg
If its csd of the whole botlane it makes sense though, doesnt it?
Would be decent. But they show 1.3 CS/M in the same graphic. That’s definitely support-only.
If its csd of the whole botlane it makes sense though, doesnt it?
Would be decent. But they show 1.3 CS/M in the same graphic. That’s definitely support-only.
Love this perspective and have a lot of thoughts on the matter myself. Agreed on broadcasts being able to “cheat” by choose their scope very carefully to frame a discussion - at the end of the day they’re there to give background enough to fuel a compelling point, and not do a thesis on most topics.
The main problem I see a broadcast having as a format, is that you don’t always have the airtime to fully flesh out the context needed to give a watertight argument. Stats may not lie, but they can lie by omission, and commonly at that too.
I don’t mind if arguments aren’t watertight. We are there to entertain first and foremost. Generally pre-planned segments are given room to breathe, though. And ad-hoc ones usually have smart hosts (Dash, Gabby) who let us explain enough. I’d say I’m happy with how LCS handles it.
Wanted to ask what is your opinion on the state of of ldr and void staff? Don't they provide a bit to much resistance shred right now?
I am a security engineer. I can give you my opinion, but my opinion doesn't have the weight you think it does. I'm also quite bad at the game.
Read moreI don’t disagree with you on the point of Academy being player development, and I’m glad that’s become a bigger focus in recent years. Still, I don’t think LS is wrong to more or less ignore Academy - though it’ll negatively impact me as viewer tuning in for the Academy games. Most likely, Copy and Isles will get more improvement from scrimmaging their LCS counterpart than their matches in Academy league. Which is normal for basically any sport, since practice is far more influential to development than official matches. If this were to spread, leading to notable players like Zven not being seen in the league’s games, it could negatively impact viewership, which is the biggest drawback - and different people will have different opinions on just how big of a drawback that is.
On a tangent, I know you’ll likely have much more knowledge than me about how things are set up among the other teams and their Academy rosters, but I don’t know how common it is for Academy and LCS ros...
If your internal scrims are better practice than the academy league, then so be it. Those 10.5 players are getting a lot of great practice.
But let’s face it. The other nine LCS teams don’t seem to have that aspiration. No teams in history have gone for an actually-strong practice squad that can compete with LCS teams.
As for not helping academy players, that sounds like a poor teammate. I’m in direct competition with other play-by-play commentators for big assignments and never once have I ever considered withholding or begrudging help when asked. Never once have I considered sabotaging them. I can’t fathom that mindset. These people are my friends. If teams can’t get that out of their players they should hire better.
It's tough. Here's where I'm at personally with League data:
A lot of things are instantly useless. So for example, the winrate of X champion at Y tournament is pretty much always bad as an analysis tool. Not only are there usually not enough data points to do anything more than, "yeah this champion is probably strong on average," you also have biased data by, say, EDG playing more Lucian+Nami than any other team. Now you're just measuring EDG's win rate, not Lucian's.
I don't think that stat is useless at all. It gives you a good jumping off point.
X has a high winrate -> What's the relative strength of teams playing X -> What champions is X being paired with? -> Why are those champions good with X? Are there other champions that fit into those roles? Conversely, is there a champion that can fulfill X's role?
I think there's definitely an issue where teams go "X is broken this patch, let's pick it with no practice" but ...
Well, sure, anything can be inspiration. But I'm saying more for the sense that time is limited. If you want to look at a spreadsheet and come away with answers without going and investigating every single game, then you want to be presented with something more curated.
it sounds like you dont think traditional sports statistics will work with league?
i'd assume mainly cause of patches/ever changing?
I think there are plenty of things that could carry over and work. Napkin math, MLB pitchers throw ~100 pitches a game for ~160 games a season. I don't know how accurate either number is exactly, but that's what Google told me. So 16k pitches a year. That's a lot of pitches you get to analyze.
EDG's Viper played 121 games this year. About as many games as a MLB player. So find something that he does ~100 times a game and you've got something with as much data as an MLB pitcher does. Find something he does ~6-20 times a game and you've got as much data as an MLB batter.
I think patches are much less important. Sure there can be some really big changes, like lane swaps, funnel, or playing support as Senna but you can manually tag those and they are often player-driven actions anyway. So just account for the Senna games when you're analyzing Viper.
It comes down to how much you have to subdivide. MLB batters face left- and right-handed pitchers. Fatigue for eit...
Read moreMore likely because there aren't many people in the industry who know how to properly analyze data given what is available.
I'm a college drop-out and while I studied economics and thus econometrics in university, I've forgotten a large portion of what I was taught and re-learned a bit of it.
So like, I'm an undergraduate economics student in skillset at this point and I'm one of the better stats people in the English-speaking scene? Honestly there should be people out there who demolish me at this stuff. And maybe they're out there and I don't see their content. But yeah, there are bound to be tons of questions that are answerable but aren't.
I think a major problem with LoL data is that it is obviously observational and not experimental. We know there are confounders (ex. who is playing that champion, what team composition they are in), and we have statistical tools to adjust for their confounders. However, I assume there are too many confounders for how little data is available (especially considering variables that change over time, like patches). I also don't know if they have professional statisticians, which would be another necessary condition. I do health science research and am not a statistician, but it seems extremely difficult to make any use of professional player data.
Yeah pro play is probably far too sparse.
But generally speaking, most of the noise washes out. I'm very confident I could tell you which champion is supposed to win a matchup if you gave me 10k games of Gold/XP differences by the minute almost regardless of MMR. Because I can test for matchup strength against MMR and the impact of "well this player got Elise as their jungler" just washes out more often than not.
League has the luxury of tens of thousands of games of sample for almost any given 1v1 matchup. That's going to give you really reliable answers as long as you're asking the right questions.
I don't think LS is implying anything about imports and their role in Academy. I think he's saying that, because it doesn't matter at all if your Academy team nabs first place in their league, they're going to keep Zven slotted in for practices, so they can focus on making the best LCS team. Even if the Academy team ultimately loses some games due to K1ng not being practiced with them, does that really matter? I believe that is LS's point.
EDIT: And here's confirmation from LS himself: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cloud9/comments/rpvxos/building_the_2022_cloud9_lcs_academy_roster_ft_ls/hq74z2c/
I'd argue that it's fine if winning academy doesn't matter. The point of academy is, in fact, to develop players for the LCS. That's literally the express purpose. To say Riot doesn't care about academy and the evidence provided is that winning academy doesn't matter is really missing the point of academy.
The point of academy is player development. Rolling academy into the amateur circuit and proving grounds are the key pieces of evidence here. It's why Danny got a starting spot on EG LCS. That's a key success story of academy. It does not matter how well EG's sub-LCS teams performed or what place they got. What matters is that Danny got a bunch of games that let EG decided he was ready for an LCS starting spot.
What LS wants is a powerful practice squad. Fair enough. He's got one.
True but it feels like jhin outscales most of the. Carries cos he has nuts ad scalings past 13ish
Every ADC has their own unique steroid, Jhins is his passive which is a kiss/curse thing. If Jhins autos didnt hit extremely hard, it would be hard to justify bringing him, because the drawback is that his autos are very slow compared to other ADCs. His per-shot and ability damage needs to be higher to compensate.
sigh I'll get started on the Champion Insights already...
Hey mr. Reav3. Will we get a champion roadmap before the new year or after? We are curious about the next champions :)
Not this year no. The next champion roadmap will be in video form for season start next year
Hey Reav3, just wondering here. Is the udyr dev blog still coming this year? Thank you
It will be part of Season Start next year
Lvl 18 jhin with full build is nuts
most carry champions at level 18 with full build are nuts - that's the strongest they can possibly be :P
I was absolutely certain it was satire and was waiting for LS to pop out and say, "sike, this year at C9 we're going to avoid bad statistical practices like this." because LS is generally against using stats in LoL.
Being against using data is pretty troll.
So the secret to getting a job at Riot is to play Skarner?
And have all the other good qualities that made me and other people thumbs-up the interview.
They just say a couple stats from Oracle's Elixer and call it a day.
Winsome could easily just have really long game times which gives the support a chance to have high vision scores. Or it could be a rune choice he always takes even if it isn't optimal.
Fwiw I think it is also very defensible to just “lie” and not give away the stats they actually use in analysis as a competitive edge. I know that if I thought I was far ahead of the game in any facet I wouldn’t give away my secrets. It’s why I name changed when I started playing WC3 competitively.
Just to add: Academy teams still have a second import slot for minor regions players (see TSMA with Takeover and Yursan).
Ah you're right, I forgot about that extra rule. I'll edit that in.
Probably just for the sponsored segment LS is pretty vocal about looking at the context of the data like Lane matchups and so on so i don't think they are actually just using raw data like this
It's tough. Here's where I'm at personally with League data:
A lot of things are instantly useless. So for example, the winrate of X champion at Y tournament is pretty much always bad as an analysis tool. Not only are there usually not enough data points to do anything more than, "yeah this champion is probably strong on average," you also have biased data by, say, EDG playing more Lucian+Nami than any other team. Now you're just measuring EDG's win rate, not Lucian's.
This trend continues with things like, "Show my Viper's CSD." Well, we already established that EDG plays a lot of Lucian Nami, so he probably has inflated CSD from lane matchups, not necessarily because of player skill.
You can build upon that and construct a model for, "OK, what is the average Lucian vs. Ashe CSD and how does that compare here?" You can maybe construct Lucian vs. Ashe across all pro play for an entire year but more likely you're looking at Master+ solo queue instead. Keep in...
Read moreExcited for any team that's going to do serious statistical analysis.
Head-scratching that they wrote CSD and CS/M for a support into the script, though.