League of Legends Dev Tracker

Originally posted by falconstar3

Completely agree for level 1, Leona if she got on you at level 1 in the right matchup would solo you as an adc back in 2013. Now she waits until 2 everytime. Is there a Breakeven of where we're squishier now or that tanks are doing more damage now because of item scaling or something (maybe even just passives on items, less utility more damage these days - Zeke's for instance) Just curious

Originally posted by LegFinger

Yeah, pretty much anything that can be auto'd can be senna q'd, although the heal only comes through for you for things like turrets

Originally posted by LeviZm

Now call me crazy, but IIRC league wasn't released until 2009..? Thats why we just had that 10 year anniversary..

Originally posted by Rockm_Sockm

I love you Phreak but when this has been proven true, especially for adc's being instantly blown up, time and time again you cite math as a shield.

Riot also reduced adc base stats, and gutted shared xp two years in arrow. The non stop buffs to solo laners also impacted the game. Regardless how fed bot lane gets, they are down 2-3 levels at a minimum to a solo laner.

Damage is up in multiple positions and completely down in one. You can take personal shots at Codysun and say the math says otherwise all you want.

Originally posted by InHaUse

Then the issue isn't in the runes, it's in the new champions and item changes.

Regardless the true source, damage needs to be nerfed across the board. Perhaps an easy solution would be to just increase base and per level armor and mr for everyone?

Originally posted by mcasterix123

First up, I get your point about runes needing to be ~50% more powerful to match up, but I'm not sure if the math adds up, or it's at least difficult to quantify. The only old non-keystone mastery I'd consider to have the same value as a rune like Perfect timing is maybe Insight. Inspiration in general is a mess.

Also, they don't carry the same restrictions as the S7 masteries, where the (arguably) more valuable masteries required more points to be invested (again, another advantage of L: Tenacity vs Swiftness).

This leads me into Feast and ToB. I don't really see how I'm ignoring history given I said exactly what happened to it in the patch notes.

Most champions running ToB tend to proc it very safely with ranged autos or abilities IE Kennen, Akali, and Aatrox, plus I'd say its harder to gauge its healing due to its ratios. It's ultimately just made the rune way stronger for those that can run it safely, and not necessarily worth it for anyone else.

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Originally posted by TheOmnivious

When they changed the rune system I remember that MR overall was nerfed to match the loss of Magic Penetration runes which were run on a fair number of champs. However, by reducing the overall MR of champions to compensate, it buffed champs that never ran Magic Penetration, such as Nautilus, Leona, etc. Any magic dealing champion was indirectly buffed.

That much is definitely true. However, Leona was compensated her more common Mark choice of +armor. Nautilus, who was compensated +ASpd, got substantially less +Armor.

Now THAT argument could be made, but is combated via the stat shards we have today and the %spell damage and penetration masteries of yesteryear that champions like Leona and Nautilus ran then.

For example, here's IgNar's infamous Fervor Leona rune/mastery page: https://i.imgur.com/fTMiN0u.png

I'd argue today's Leona damage output is weaker than that.

Originally posted by josluivivgar

I think what it really boils down to, is that tank champions feel like they do more damage than they used to.

Im purposely using the word feel because before, design on tank usually favored dots over straight damage (think amumu w sejuani old aoe thing etc, shen poking with q).

Damage over time will always "feel" weaker even if the numbers are the same.

The thing is that now everything seems to have their damage front loaded and so it feels like there's more damage. (Stuff like aftershook help with that feeling, even if aftershock has a delay for the damage it's burst damage).

I don't know if damage is the same or not (and tankiness), but the feeling that tanks can burst you is very real

Originally posted by tpst

I dont think many people would disagree with your logic, but i also think something is missing. The game has undeniably gone from 5D chess to a top-down call of duty.

Take lee sin, for example. Lee never used to be able to R-Q-Q people, it was always Q-R-Q to get the damage necessary for the Q execute. Now he just builds lethality and one shots non-tanks at most stages of the game, with little counterplay, where he used to fall off hard.

Naut and leo never used to kill ADCs in one rotation, now they do. somethings f**ky

Originally posted by mcasterix123

First, many players who were likely to face little magic damage early would take the scaling MR glyphs to handle mixed damage more effectively after the laning phase. Second, not only did champions get the compsenatory stat buffs, but they also gained more AD or AP through traits throughout S8 that S7 runes offered in the first place.

Also, it's worth noting a lot of the old masteries were very % based IE 3% more dmg to low enemies, 1-5% damage increase upon killing enemies etc. It meant that snowballing was only marginally increased and didn't amplify early leads as much/ make polarised lanes any more polarised.

Second, let's take a look at some of the runes with direct analogues. Electrocute: higher base damage and ratios than thunderlord's. Coup de grace: 8% against Merciless's 3%. Grasp: up from 3% health damage to 4%. What about L: Bloodlines/Ravenous Hunter as compared to Vampirism? Or Swiftness (a rune which required significant investment into the resol...

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Originally posted by Lord_Drizzy

Awesome job man, always a big fan of your work and all your insight in videos, on the dive, and especially on broadcasts! Keep it up Azael!

Originally posted by imArsenals

The discussion is that there’s powercreep/damage creep. The discussion is that there’s characters like Qiyana that can nearly 1 shot adc’s without ulting (Cody talked about this in the video).

Redditors and others may not know exactly where this damage creep is coming from, and they wrongly place the blame on other things (such as rune reforged). My guess is because it’s a lot more obvious when you get hit by electrocute/dark harvest and die vs. no visual effect when you had old runes but still died. But the entire conversation is still about damage seemingly being higher.

So, while you are correct in saying “it isn’t runes reforged, here’s the math”, it doesn’t address what people are actually finding problematic. What would address it is “the damage creep isn’t runes reforged, it’s X Y and/or Z”. Alternatively, there may not be damage creep at all, though I don’t think this is the case.

Originally posted by Sgtvangelder

I sometimes run AP+AP as Naut because I don't need the tank stats. I blow up the ADC and unless the enemy support is Leona or Braum, I blow them up too.

As a support main who primarily plays Thresh, Naut, Leona, and this season some Senna I can say that way more times than I can count 1v1 the enemy adc with 0 problem. I always read the patch notes, and mathematically true or not what matters is that it FEELS like damage is way out of control.

I played Aphelios in an ARAM last night, and the enemy AP Gragad could kill me in under a second, while the entire time I am cc'd by uncleansable cc, and don't deal damage back. Playing squishy champs doesn't even feel fair half the time because everyone lives longer and does more damage.

Originally posted by imArsenals

Phreak, while the damage/power creep may not specifically be from runes reforged - there is still a damage/power creep and that’s really the “issue” Cody Sun and others are complaining about. And you know that.

Originally posted by raie2

It's true we don't don't have access to the numbers the way you do, so I have a few questions for my own curiosity:

1) How differently do the old runes in contrast to the runes reforged perform mathematically in later stages of the game vs. early stages? In early stages of the game, I imagine (off the top of my head with no research done) that you're right about the old runes not being too different mathematically than the runes reforged, but I would think that as the game continues, the runes reforged offer more damage increases and reductions.

2) I'm not sure exactly how to word this, but how are the possible rune combinations affect the math behind what you said? What I mean is before, one restrictions were that MR glyphs offered more MR than any other runes which meant that if you wanted as much MR as efficiently as possible, you couldn't get CD gylphs. So this system created some limitations in what players could obtain. Now with runes reforged, players can on...

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Originally posted by Ehler

If youre gonna bash someone for being unable to read patch notes you might wanna read 8.11 yourself.

Originally posted by izillah

I feel like this is well trod ground at this point. As general rule EVERYTHING Riot add to the game is more powerful than the stuff that preceded it.

The notable exception in this example is that you cannot really spec into MR and Armour in botlane where it's almost certain you are going to be facing mixed damage.

I'm actually interested in whether other options might be better than arbitrarily going AS|AD|Armour . Especially in some match ups where the AD does mixed or little damage early like Kaisa or Twitch. Or double dipping defence against lanes like Lucian Nami where you will outscale without the 9AD anyway

Originally posted by helloquain

Not sure what rank you are, but if you're Gold or lower I recommend just learning Amumu jungle (or AP Malphite jungle, which seems to work for me, but feels questionable). It's pretty straight forward: ignore your laners desperate cries for attention (you: Level 3, half health, killing bot scuttle; your top lane: PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING), clear camps, rush to 6, kill someone with ult, take an objective, go back to jungle for two minutes, repeat. You'll be pretty effective with that relatively straight forward, low complexity gameplan and from there you can learn to weave in efficient/effective non-ult ganks, invading, optimal routing, surviving the asshole Lee Sin who really wants your dick, etc.

From there you can pick up more complex stuff, but something with a simple play pattern will help you focus on learning the nuance of jungle.