If you do decide to buff Yone, I hope it’s not an obvious huge power spike. I only play Yone cuz he fun, but sometimes it can be difficult to get him. If the buff is straight up power, he will be permabanned. It’s understandable as he isn’t very fun to play against when he is strong.
Looking to buff his Q. Its damage, which we are skeptical of, but its his highest skill-output in the game and offers plenty of solid counterplay so we thinks its the right choice.
Because their banrate isnt high enough. For our internal data Zed has been within the range of 50% (back and forth between 1-2% above and below) for many patches
Possibly a stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway. Why is a champion allowed to have that high a ban rate for that long, before you guys make changes? He's been north of 40% since around 11.21.
I think he was below where our set bar is for banrate, but only just by a little, though we have been keeping an eye on him for awhile.
Out of curiosity, what is the most valuable or most discussed form of feedback you see? Any types of posts or comments that make one of you go "Huh, I didn't think of that" or "That's a good idea".
I feel like there's a large difference between "Yone is broken" compared to (and I'm pulling this out of my butt as I don't play much these days) "His W is too strong for these reasons, I wish it had this handicap" or something similar. Given that you have access to internal data I imagine most of these ideas have already been considered anyway.
Any insight on how to give meaningful complaints that result in more than Rioters seeing someone express they don't like something? I suppose I'm asking for Reddit specific as content creators like Moobeat and Vandril already contribute meaningfully in different ways that aren't what I'm thinking of.
I mean generally I just think using examples and giving context is insanely helpful to get your point across. We will read a post in detail if it goes into the how and why behind an opinion. Posts like that definitely have a much higher chance to catch out attention than just "X champion is broken or X ability/mechanic is unhealthy for the game"
Do Yasuo and Yone not hit the bar because they haven’t retained their banrates for a long enough time, or are the banrates not high enough? Obviously I understand if you can’t share that kind of info but I’m genuinely curious about the thought process behind Riot’s balancing decisions.
Oh and also thanks for the quick response, it’s super appreciated!
Because their banrate isnt high enough. For our internal data Zed has been within the range of 50% (back and forth between 1-2% above and below) for many patches, where as Yasuo/Yone are consistantly between 20-30% banrate, much lower.
follow up question, do you guys have a "balance" framework for this aswell or is it more of an open discussion in your team?
Because obviously with each new champ release the ban pool dilutes, a champ was considered oppressive and banned a lot 4 years ago would have a considerable lower banrate today since we only have 5 bans after all
This frame work here covers it for the most part. We try to always use context (like you mentioned new champs likely to be more commonly banned the first few patches) but this serves as a general guideline: https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-balance-framework-update/
Sorry for the ping but I’m curious since we’re on the topic of feedback, design and perception, I’ve always been curious if player frustration is something Riot has tried to measure and if it plays any significant part in balancing.
There are a handful of champs (most notably Yasuo, Yone, Zed) that retain high banrates despite not having overperforming winrates. Is this something Riot considers as a frustration factor or do you look at it in a different light?
I think the best way we capture player frustration is through direct banrate. For example when Samira retained a high banrate on release despite her tuning being within reasonable bands, we looked at design things to change and ended up removing her E dash working on allies, which ended up helping her a lot in the banrate. For Zed, his banrate was the reason behind his nerf. If his banrate remains high despite being in a weak/tuned state, we are going to likely continue to make tuning or design changes aimed at reducing frustration. We would and will do the same for champions that consistently have a high banrate for a long time. Worth nothing that Yasuo and Yone do not hit that bar, nor are they particularly close.
Read moreHuh.
However, by the end of Patch 12.1, players have already acclimated to the changes
Is that so.
Can you elaborate to us what changes happened to Lulu in 12.1, changes to which Lulu players then acclimated and climbed back up?
The power of acclimatization also benefitted Vayne I suppose.
And Akshan
And Blitzcrank, naturally.
Jinx, of course.
Vex, though that ...
I will say, we do browse reddit (obviously, hi) and we do really find a lot of the feedback given here to be valuable regarding design, player perception, etc. For balance, I don't think it is more or less about whether they are valuable or not, its more that the data being used in these posts are just wrong, as you pointed out. We use our internal data which is going to be the most accurate towards what we are looking for. Websites that use our API often splice our data in certain ways that simply makes it less accurate towards what we are looking for when we are trying to balance the game.
Could’ve been WAY more disruptive though. More items like Anathemas Chains are needed in LoL.
Yup, I agree with that. I think the scope was very hard to understand because it was uncharted territory. I agree with Anathemas Chains being a really good item and I think our more recent additions are also pretty good! Gonna look to address more item pain points in the future hopefully!
I agree, I am not a big fan of that, it would be nice if there are no huge disruptions in the middle of the season. But they are being far too conservative in the offseason. Neither the item rework nor the drakes had much of any impact on the champions played in say mid in proplay.
So I disagree that the item rework was conservative nor that it had a low impact on pro champions. We saw a lot of shake-up especially early in the season. As for this season, it was intentional that we weren’t going as big in scope because of how large a preseason last year was.
Ctrl F: "NFT"
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nice
But think what if you could buy a skin for a champion... and then PLAY IT IN EVERY SINGLE GAME OF LEAGUE OF LEGENDS!!!!
Finally me permabanning Zed for the last 3 seasons pays off.
However, I don't even remember how strong or weak he is. All I remember is that regardless of what lane I play, he somehow ends up 10-0 before laning phase ends.
It's like the Katarina syndrome a la no matter what you do in a lane against her, at one point she is gonna return to lane with 3 random kills.
Yup, as a player I understand how you feel. As much as you know that, obviously this champion doesnt just have a 90% winrate and they dont just stomp literally every game they are in, but it feels like it. When we look to nerf because of banrate we generally don't want to take away power as much as we want to tone down something that makes that champion frustrating our unhealthy. To be clear, usually this still involved taking away power somewhere.
Lol thanks for all the responses so late! You personally interested in any of the VGUs from the Poll? I'd love to see Shyvana imo
Shyvana was an easy vote for me, some of the champions in the poll im not a huge fan of, but I think Shyvanas potential to be pog is what won her the vote for me.
Any news on Graves? He was hit pretty hard by the nerfs as well.
No news on graves as of right now. His builds are more flexible so he has other options compared to some of those that were hit harder.
I just saw Zed's Banrate at 49.9%, what's your guy's internal data say?
Haven't looked at it recently so can't say for certain but it has consistently floating a little above 50% for quite a long time
Any specific Nerfs you're exploring that you can share?
Dejavu. Undecided, probably looking at W nerfs for Lulu and R nerfs for Zed.
Any specific Buff you're exploring that you can share?
Undecided, looking at R buffs
Do you think the Zed and Lulu nerfs are targeting her banrate rather than specifically power?
Lulu is because winrate, Zed because banrate
Samira lost 2,5% winrate because of the shieldbow change but people only care about yone and yasuo it seems
Mentioned elsewhere but Samira will also be getting buffs
We're buffing the wind brothers because they suffered substantially from the Shieldbow changes and dropped to around 47.5% winrate each
What about Samira???
Samira isnt on here but will be getting buffed
If you time it perfectly, you can press P within like 3-5 seconds of getting into game from the loading screen and when you load in your shop will be open. All about the early game time saves.
devtrackers.gg
