phroxz0n

Shadowflame wasn't designed to be an anti shield item. It is a magic pen item for champions that cannot proc any of the other pure damage items (horizon, Lich, etc.) with an anti-shield cherry on top.

We found that gating the full item functionality behind an opponent team composition having shielders, when it's meant to be a core item did not satisfy those users.

These champions are often trying to nuke champions through a defensive shield like Janna, lulu, locket etc.

In those situations against a full hp ~15-1800 hp target, getting the max pen can be significant. 7 mpen can be a surprising amount of damage and it also has good effect against bruisers who are frequently at the max hp threshold and taking ambient damage.

You ran into the edge case that I described on Twitter. We are figuring out a design solution for it and will deploy it when it's ready. It doesn't happen in many games, but when it happens it's quite painful and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

We're planning some imminent changes (either today or tomorrow) to objective bounties to address:

• bounties turning on with only a light lead
• having bounties more appropriately fall off if a team clawed back some (but not all) of the deficit

Then we have a good lead on why bounties are occasionally not falling off for ahead teams, but resolving this is more complicated, so the earliest we'd be able to resolve that is 11.24.

All of your feedback is valued and thanks for helping us track down the issues.

Yep, there are some changes being worked on to:

• Not have bounties trigger when a team is only lightly behind
• Not require a losing team to claw back so much of the lead until the bounty falls off

It's mainly that we don't want players paying too much attention to optimizing the thresholds (eg. inting when close to thresholds to get a bounty; even though that's a net negative play)

For now, we've decided not to show it as it's meant to correlate with a player's intuitive understanding of how ahead or behind they are, even if they don't know the exact formulas. We're not quite hitting the mark on that, given how often bounties are triggering when players don't feel like the bounty team is that far behind. And there are some other edge case states that we're looking at resolving (eg. if a losing team has Dragon Soul, it is being valued too highly by the system).

There are different degrees of mistakes. For example:

Moderate Size Mistake: If Yi and Ezreal gave away their champion bounties and they lost a turret, they are still 4k gold ahead in that scenario and the 6k gold lead gives them that buffer.

Extra Wide Mistake: Starting a risky Baron in a bad position, flipping it, getting punished, then all getting chased down, losing all bounties and 3 turrets.

I'm not saying that if you make a mistake the game should be equalized, but if you make an enormous mistake, then yes, in my opinion the game should be equalized when the lead is only 6k. If the lead was 10k or more, then yeah, sure they still have a buffer even after an enormous throw like this, but that wasn't the case in this game.

I do think that's true, but that's also the primary counterplay as the losing team. One valid playstyle from behind is to play keepaway and annoy the enemy team by constantly splitting them up (think 2019, 1-3-1 G2).

It's definitely a bit different to the ARAM playstyle that people have been used to playing; ahead teams need to be a bit more vigilant about pushing out side waves; having good vision, collapsing on lone split pushers (who are making themselves vulnerable as they are definitionally behind), etc.

Objective Bounties have a pretty strong teaching element to them (show both the winning team and losing team points of interest with the highlights), especially for newer or lower skill players. I'm pretty confident that the community will learn these things and improve their coordination over time; the initial shock of a particular piece of content dropping that changes gameplay is always painful, but we're quite confident that this feature improves the game...

So just for context, I looked into the game. The ahead team started a 50/50 Baron that got stolen and the team got 4 for 1'd. Their Mid got solo killed in the side lane. Losing team pushed 2 lanes and killed 3 turrets.

The total swing was:

• 1650g Objective Bounties
• 1400g Champion Bounties
• 2250g Champion Kill Gold
• 1850g Turret
• 1500g Baron
• 750g Farm

This set of events with Objective Bounties was 9400 and 7750 without them. I'm definitely open to other opinions here, but personally, I don't think this is unreasonable and the bounties didn't change the way the teamfights or Baron encounter played out.

I do think in this particular case that the bounty may have lingered for too long after the losing team equalized the game (and something we're looking at addressing), which may be off.

However, I'm of the opinion that if you do a giga throw at Baron with a 6k Gold lead when you were signi...

Do you mind linking me the game, so I can check it out?

The item shouldn't give true sight. And if it does its a bug. Do you mind verifying?

Hi folks,

We're currently monitoring objective bounties turning on slightly too early (when teams don't feel behind enough to warrant getting a bounty).

Please reply to the thread with games that feel off to you & why they felt off (opgg and game identifying information will suffice).

Hi folks,

If you have any bounty games that feel off, please post them in this thread. (opgg and identifying features about the game will suffice)

Also please include information about why the bounty felt off to you. It's a very tuning dependent system, so we're trying to gather as much information as possible from you all.

We don't expect to have hit the correct tuning on the first try and the first few hours of games will give us 1000x more games than we ever possibly could have playtested.

Thanks everyone!

Would you mind linking the game so I can investigate?

This is actually not as bright as intended. It's meant to make your champion invisible.

I know you're not going to believe me, but revenue is not even remotely a consideration for people making gameplay changes and I've been on the team since season 4, including the live gameplay era. Sometimes skins come out and I didn't even know they were in development, so I wouldn't agree with this take at all.

The representation in the video is not exactly accurate. We did say that certain regions have certain preferences (this doesn't just mean China for example) regarding damage and that we have a lot of discussions internally about it. In that meeting, we did NOT say that damage in league is staying the way it is ad infinitum, nor that we are happy or unhappy with where it is currently.

Regardless of whether a region likes damage a certain way, if we determined it was worth changing the amount of damage for some reasons (whether that's increasing the quality of tactical gameplay, slowing down combat, etc.), then there's a possibility that it will still be done.

Notably, there are a lot of flow on effects from changing damage that require weeks, if not months of follow up work and instability, including completely up ending the meta and game understanding for Pro play, so that's also one of the considerations. It would not be as simple as just reducing damage by X% and...

Around March sometime I believe. It's not really a common strategy to cs with support item, so probably took a while to catch it.

So uh... I regret to inform you that Shard of True Ice not giving minion penalty is not intended. It was fixed recently, but not as a result of this video. Sorry for nerfing your strategy :(

One of our designers accidentally removed it for Shard only while doing a rescript :(

Assassins are a special case because they are the class with the highest amount of burst damage. Each class has different intended strengths and weaknesses, different player profiles and preferences which is why classes are treated differently.

Are you suggesting that assassin items should have more power in Burst damage and less in AH? The entire point of AH on assassins is that it draws out their combat pattern, allowing them to still succeed when they land all their spells but not having their one combo instantly kill you. Assassins are getting more AH by intention BECAUSE it reduces the amount of burst damage they need to deal in first rotation and sustain their power level.

As for mages, it's fine to give them a choice between Burst damage and ability haste. One of the issues with s9/10 itemization was that mages were maxed out on cdr by item 2 every game, which isn't a desirable state. I don't agree with the notion that the majority of AP items should have AH if that's what you're suggesting. They have a solid baseline with mana Mythics haste and can go Lucidity or transcendence if they choose. Then they can choose between damage, defense or haste.