Jungler [melee] here, been on PBE. Jungle kiting feels fine. Scuttle shield is weird though, especially for Yi.
Yeah, scuttle is kinda rough for people with no CC. Its the same as killing old scuttle with no CC but now you can see how much worse it is :(
How has Yi felt in terms of items and clearspeed and stuff?
I have boss.
The jungle does not feel dangerous enough. It's too forgiving, especially with the healing buffs the jg items got prior? On top of all changes compiled it's just a watered down experience imo
The healing buffs stuff are all gone, its just vamp. That being said its very possible the healing is too high right now and we're watching it
Read moreI really appreciate you taking the time for a full response! I definitely agree that the kill count would spike hilariously, and you're going to end up with massive characters arriving in lane with a full complement of tools to abuse their lead. I do think the gold/exp rewards for killing level 3 champions could be tuned even further downward, but that might break player expectations and leave players feeling shortchanged when their score doesn't match the expected reward.
But I disagree on the value of the level 1 fights- it's a kind of problem solving that's perfectly unique to URF, and something that definitely evolves and balances itself as a micro-meta evolves, but I don't think that's best for the general player experience right now. There's a possibility that the balance and playtest teams (and to a lesser extent, PBE community) are more experienced and knowledgeable about the general power levels and tactics, so they're reporting a more fulfilling experience than so...
I definitely see where you're coming from. The toplane brawl is a very interesting case for sure, because people just started doing it and it snowballed from there. In case you don't know, in Korea they actually do the same thing but in the midlane!
If it helps, I've definitely experienced more success calling off the toplane fight as a duo. If only 3 out of 5 are there most players will be a lot more cautious.
What are your thoughts on Samira basically playing Urf all the time in SR with the exception of her W cd lol
I think she's a dope champion and I can't wait to see what pros will do with her. I think she's a great addition to the roster.
Read moreI think the main argument here is comparing URF to ARAM which does start you at level 3.
The two game modes are oddly similar in some ways. They’re both generally played to be fast-paced or quicker games compared to SR. They both de-emphasize CSing and favour brawling it out. Now ARAM tends to have a bit more nuance in that you try to time your engages with ally cooldowns vs enemy cooldowns because it’s theoretically a permanent 5v5 and your skills aren’t on insanely short timers whereas URF can be XvX depending on tons of factors and fighting any chance you can is seen as optimal because there’s little repercussion for blowing a (normally) big ability.
The other major differences between the two being ARAM is always on a single lane map with no meaningful objectives outside of structures but has access to a 40s~ engage skill to break stalemates and allow certain champions to not feel awful; while URF has access to the cannon, short cooldowns and respawn t...
I think the level 3 start makes more sense in ARAM because you really don't have any option besides engaging with the other team. The terrain makes it so.
In URF, why should the teams be on equal ground at level 1? Part of the skill of LoL is recognizing who is stronger based on the state of the game. If you think the other team will win the level 1 fight, you can always opt out (and try to convince your team to opt out too). For example, in this situation I've found success pinging danger a bunch and getting into the cannon first and going mid or bot. That sends a strong signal that I don't intend to do the toplane fight and it often (not always of course) dissuades my team from engaging.
I understand that many champs don't feel that fun until level 3, but I still think that's an important part of the texture of laning in LoL. Starting at level 3 would make some champions more fun, and others that are better in the early levels less so. Since it removes nuance from...
Read moreThat's fair. I can see six weeks being needed for this overhaul.
Would it be possible to see Brittle (Ornn's status effect off his W and R) be applied to a tank item or champ this season?
It's possible? We've tested that kind of thing before and it does do some interesting things, no guarantee though
will the kiting nerf really diminish skill expression within the jungle? this role has always been targeted to get dumbed down
You can still kite, its more that you can't do the like 0 ping jarvan kill of blue buff without taking damage kiting. I'd implore you to try out the jungle on PBE and let me know if you feel like it's really dumbed down, and what feels off
Please don’t listen to the monkeys on reddit complaining that their favorite champs sucks at level ONE in a fun mode.
Well, considering that the TLDR of my reply is "I disagree with OP," I don't think you need to worry :-P
That being said, it's my job to make the game more fun if I can!
I'm working on the jungle so I can chat a bit here.
As a jungle main, you are my new best friend.
I think it's going to have to be an overall sweep of items first. It's nice to have Immolate on everything, but I agree it makes them a bit too bland. I wouldn't mind seeing 'bonus damage vs. monsters' used more to compensate and open up item and champ power.
There's definitely tons of unsolved and unfinished things in the system right now. Maybe tank junglers need a ton of help so we have to tune the burn bHP ratio up, or amp the immolate damage. Maybe immolate is too low right now so these junglers become OP when its buffed for lane etc. Obviously these aren't real examples, but its sorta a piece-by-piece process where as things get locked other things can get locked, and so on.
Note right now the burn damage doesn't scale after your item transforms [big bug :'(] which means some junglers who rely on it (like tanks) can struggle to clear as the game progresses
@RiotScruffy @RiotMeddler
Morning all, getting right to the point.
Four questions:
• Any data about jungler economy in light of the new item system? I often feel like I'm just wrapping up a mythic as everyone else is halfway into their second item, and I've been focusing tanks and fighters in jg.
• Should Rageblade be a mythic item? I feel the "double proc" effect will mesh too well with
GaleforceKRAKEN (frag it, I keep mixing the two), not to mention the additional magic damage invalidating resistance building. Maybe mesh Galeforce and Rageblade together?• Why do all the tank mythics have Sunfire built into them? It feels like it will have a negative effect on lane freezing, unless that is an intended effect.
• Has anyone considered whether Yasuo will break Collector like Ezreal broke Klepto?
I'm working on the jungle so I can chat a bit here.
From internal tests we've seen junglers stay about at parity with live. not having a super efficient, cheap, spike item can feel rough and in some cases can be a significant power down so we're monitoring to make sure the Jungle is still in a good place.
Some of the lost gold is recouped in stuff like not having to buy the smite portion of the jungle item.
With changes like this I would expect some amount of disruption and even kit problems (maybe Rammus really struggles in the new jungle for example) but we'll make sure the champs and role still feel good, even if it takes us a bit to lock down issues or get good data.
You're welcome
Beyond the issues outlined in the parent, I think it's worth noting that having 3 available at the start means a much less "un-fun" few minutes of the beginning of laning outside of the top lane fiesta. Being a melee champ solo at mid against a Syndra/Lux is absolutely miserable when only one ability is there for me. Malphite is a great example of this: If I'm going solo Malph mid (because top and bot have duo premades), I have to make a decision in the form of:
Do I want waveclear with my E to ensure that I can possibly level up quicker/get some more gold? OR
Do I want some poke with my Q so that I can chip away at my opponent and prevent them from snowballing but miss out on gold?
An instant level 3 would give solo melee laners just a bit more tools for their kit to compete against control mages who wield near-infinite lockdown.
Control mages don't gain that lockdown until they have their full combo, though. All Syndra can do at lv1 is spam Q or W, and Lux either takes Q first (which lets you hide behind minions) or E first (meaning she's almost guaranteed to push the wave so you can pick it up at your tower)
The fundamentals of laning in URF aren't that different from regular Summoner's Rift. In my experience it's totally viable to play safe until you hit your spike, especially given that freezes are almost unheard of.
Yeah starting level 3 would help a lot, a ton of champs are super gated until they get all their abilities
Hello! This should be a top level comment but given that I'm pretty late to this thread, I figured I'd also post it as a reply to this comment for more visibility. Some thoughts as a designer on the Modes team -
I'm not convinced starting champions at level 3 would solve this issue. You correctly point out that people would probably still go top lane and scrap it out. I think a group of level 3 champions doing this is worse for a couple of reasons:
I agree that the toplane pi...
Read moreHello! A little late to this thread so this comment might be buried, but some thoughts (as a designer on Modes team) -
I'm not convinced starting champions at level 3 would solve this issue. You correctly point out that people would probably still go top lane and scrap it out. I think a group of level 3 champions doing this is worse for a couple of reasons:
I agree that the toplane pileup sometimes puts you in a bad situation, like starting E on Lillia rather than Q. Those fi...
Read moreI can’t find any information about this: is it 4 games every day or 2 games each day?
4 every day
does that mean games start a bit earlier? or will it start at the same time and go on for longer?
I believe it varies by region, but we are generally starting a bit earlier. I think you can check the schedule for your region in the Clash Tab of the client.
Okay, so then the proper set up for this is "Report 9x" now?
Like, I totally understand your point, I just know that the situation works in absolutes (when it comes to these sorts of conversations with people, not you or Riot in particular), it's either 9x works and you should do it to get someone punished, or 1 report works and it flags the game for Riot to see it.
Though I think at the end of the day, the mentality of "1 or 9 means a flag" is probably the best, because you can still have people report, it just doesn't specify to people that 9X REPORT shoots the potential offending behavior to the top, because I think that sort of behavior is degenerate, even if you can filter it out in terms of report quality.
I get what you're saying, people should report rule-breaking behavior if they see it, Riot will see the flag for the game but it will have flags from other people too to help "corroborate"
It's not black and white, as everyone has different behavioral thresholds; so yes, what I'm saying is report behavior that you believe is rule breaking if you see it. Don't rely on others to report for you.
Interesting, so what you're saying is that in a single game, if I report someone and then another dude reports someone, then the priority for report goes up?
Otherwise it sounds like you're saying that reporting over multiple games factors, which I don't think the comment I made disagrees with that.
Rate of reports is taken into account when analyzing consistent disruptive behavior. If players only think reporting 1 time matters in a game, then they won't feel their individual report matters and will not report. This reduces the rate of reports metric and as such makes it more difficult to identify disruptive behavior through reports that allow us to gain confidence in the action we need to take.
It also will make it difficult to identify players who report consistently well, versus those that report every game (as noted in the article).
Our system takes these into account and we're constantly building on the ingest pipeline to make sure that we're more and more confident when taking action.
Riot
TantumTantram showed the exact line of code. 1 report or 9 reports equals 1 flag. It's not like 9 reports equal 9 flags, it's just "player in game flagged"
Just to clean-up misinformation, that understanding is outdated (3 years old). Reporting players consistently matters. Our systems take into account all reports holistically. As such, if a player believes someone deserves a report, then they should report that person since it feeds the system independently.
While you're here, what are the two damage numbers tracked on Horizon Focus?
Oh yeah, one of them is damage dealt, the other is damage that would have been dealt by another it's item... I can't recall which is which! We'll fix that soon.
devtrackers.gg